Ep 3: Building a Fulfilling Creative Career with Ana Barros
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Ana: [00:00:00] I think being creative is gonna be a much bigger asset other than being so crafted. So it's about the work that is done in in the mind. So basically it's your currency right now is how creative you are and and how you can adapt to different things. It's not about your skills. I feel because you need to adapt really quickly and, and skills will take time. So it's more about how you can adapt to things.

Silvia: Welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture. Out of architecture is a career resource network helping designers apply their incredible talents in untraditional ways. We're highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we've met along the way. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the wide variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.

This is your host, Silvia Lee. And I'm excited to share that this season we're highlighting our out of architecture community members. At the end [00:01:00] of each episode, you'll hear a little bit from a community member about where they are in their career journey. So make sure you listen to the end.

Our guest today on a bottle's creative director at BTTR agency, and architectural photographer. Listen, as she shares her experiences, building a fulfilling career from her passions and the skill she used to get there. She talks about the importance of being adaptable and curious and using tools to further your creative process.

our favorite question to start off the interview with is how would you describe yourself in three words?

Curious, creative, happy
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Ana: I am curious. I'm creative, and overall right now, very happy. What

Silvia: is your background in architecture?

Studies in Architecture
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Ana: So I studied architecture now. 16 years ago.

So I finished, I studied in Lisbon where I'm from. I finished my, the master degree in Armad in Germany, where I also studied [00:02:00] photography in within the program of architecture. This was one of the reasons why I decided to finish my studies in Germany because there was an opportunity to do other things other than architecture.

So I did urban design, I did skin technology, which was like facade and then auto photography, sculpture. So basically, Actually there, I took all the classes. I just signed up on everything. So I, because I wanted to know more about the world around architecture, which was not possible in a more strict curriculum that Portugal case was offering to me.

And yeah, I finished everything really fast. I was, I was 22 years old when I finished everything and I started working. My internship was actually with a professor of mine from Lisbon, so my career started as an internship in Lisbon for one year. And then, and I decided to move out. So basically out of this SMOs program, there was this curiosity to, to maybe start the career outside and one day maybe come back, which didn't happen in the end.

But I [00:03:00] ended up finding a place in, in Austria and in Vienna. And I worked for four years then in, in, uh, inha, an office here in Austria until my career completely changed to different things. And now I'm doing something completely different. Yeah,

Silvia: what is that? Completely different thing now,

A career built from the early days of Instagram
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Ana: to give a bit of a background story, because there is a reason why I ended up doing what I do right now.

So basically when I was working at Insh Haak in, in Vienna, I was working in one project. So my work was not very creative. It was a really big building. So basically it was four year, four years of. Only one building. And that also meant the scale of it also meant that I, for example, spent one entire year just designing the drainage system of one garden.

So basically it was really like, yeah, my days were very similar. Didn't really fit my type of work and my curiosity for doing something different. And back then, I remember Instagram came about thousand 10. That's when Instagram was launched. And I had friends in the US and through [00:04:00] Facebook I saw that they were posting images edited on Instagram.

So I saw by the watermark back then, and I was curious about what's this? And so I, I download the app and I started being, Really active from the beginning 2010. While the community was very small, I was basically one of the first ones in o Austria to use Instagram, and I got noticed by the community managers in the US so I was very active and they put me on suggested users.

So basically everybody, they would download the app, they will see my profile because I was posting new content every day. Out of my need because I had an, my office days were so not creative that in my Instagram bio I said, A day in the office is not creative enough. And that was the result of it was basically at the end of the day creating different things and going around the city, discovering a city that was not mine was new.

So it kind of work. Work well. And with that, basically being a suggested user and being pushed by the app itself. I got a lot of audience right from the beginning and my channel grew financially really fast. I had 100,000 [00:05:00] followers in a year and uh, and so slowly while I was working in architecture, there was an opportunity already to work.

Back then, there was no word influencer, but I was started to be invited to do different things because I had an exposure that was not accessible for other people back then. And there were few people that had that exposure. In the beginning. And so moving forward after the four years of this project, by the end of it, I had already so many opportunities that I, that instead of starting a new project, I thought I will take a break from architecture because I can also, I just gonna try this influencer thing because I have been on the weekends, I was already flying around for Luhan, small Mercedes, like different big friends that were all new for me and I was, it was very interesting and it was an opportunity that was crazy.

And so basically that was one year. I thought, but ended up being almost four years of doing Instagram full-time back then until I got an invitation from a friend of mine in Vienna to actually open an agency, a creative agency. It's not my [00:06:00] husband. So basically met through working together and, and so I signed the agency in 2016.

And, and since then I have been working in marketing advertisement. We started with basically social content, Instagram, other channels. And right now I mostly do video production because that's where social media developed and mostly it's video and yeah, so basically my full-time job is I manage, I'm creative director and trade producer for the agency where I do a video production.

But in between, I became a mom. I had one year break. That helped me. Okay, this was very fast, this, all these changes, it gave me an opportunity to think through, okay, what do I really wanna do? How do I win and manage my time from now on because my life is different from now on? And so it became the idea to focus more on architecture, again with my knowledge from photography, video production, and advertisement.

So now I also on the side to video production for the production for architect. So architectural photography. And I help a little [00:07:00] bit as a consultant for communications because architects need to be on social media as well. And somehow with my knowledge, with my background, I can help on different sides with different ways.

And that's why I'm very happy right now because I feel like there was a full circle being then

Following where interests take you
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Silvia: when you're sh sharing it, it sounds so organic, right? Like your journey through everything.

Ana: It has been very organic, but also from my side, very naive. It was basically like, yeah, let's try it. Let's do it.

Let's do it. And one, one thing that, one thing that I figure out with a year break with my daughter was that I have been for many years out of my comfort zone because I have been always trying everything new and somehow the amount of energy, it's limited. And it decreases. I feel that decreases a bit my pick of energy somehow.

Now being a mother is not as high as it was before. So this needs to go back to architecture is like they need to go back to a comfort. So I know I experiment, experience a lot of different things and I now know different things that I can put into my work. But working with architects and talking about architecture is now something comfortable To [00:08:00] me.

Silvia: There are so many things, like everything you mentioned from the original Instagram to a creative director of an agency, to even, and also motherhood. I wanna dive deep into all of those different areas. Yes. Cause they're so important to like just talk about and really understand. So actually you, which area would you like to start with first?

Ana: Uh, no, we can start from the beginning. So basically there was, starting with an app from the beginning is excitement. Exciting, which you feel now a lot of people also picked up on, on TikTok. The first creatives were able to define the app, define the content that we now consume, and that was basically without knowing.

People like me, they were first users, almost better users of the app. They were able to, to drive, to steer the wheel of what kind of content people will be consuming because that's what organically happened for people. They were very active on the app and I, knowing that, I feel like, okay, that would be amazing to jump on the next app.

But I feel like that part of my [00:09:00] life, I think it's done. And now I'm happy to be an spectator. I'm happy to be an observer of the new trends, of the new language, and I'm just, it's just cool to know to have some insights of those, how these trends work. So I can see it from my side, from outside and not just as a.

Blinded consumer, but also understanding what those things mean and how people now communicate, which is very insightful for my job. Basically

Silvia: right now. Instagram has really blown up into such an interesting thing. I remember 2010, like lots of grainy photos and it's like you would post whatever you wanted.

And I actually also really liked Instagram. I like photos. I think architects are all partial to that, so it's a great place to just store it and I've always, when I look back on my Instagram, I really like that. Versus now there's a lot more intention between behind what people are putting onto Instagram.

Ana: A hundred percent.

Silvia: Yeah. So it's really great to see that you came up before that happened. Like it's more like authentic for sure. Even though I'm sure authenticity is a Yeah. It's an interesting thing [00:10:00] to talk about Instagram

Creating a visual identity in Instagram
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Ana: these days, but a hundred percent, like we were a hundred percent authentic at the beginning because we were not influenced by, I, we didn't know exactly what was the popular image of what things that would work or not.

We were just figuring out and, and that was not really the intention back then. It was mostly populating the app with contents and just, slowly the clients, slowly with the brands understood. And I understood by being booked by these brands Exactly. What they looking forward to my channel in there.

Understand the power of Instagram and how that can take a role into marketing and exposure for sure. But that came after of already doing it and already building a brand in there, in a visual identity somehow. And right now it's sometimes I'm bit conflicted sometimes by knowing what works, what doesn't I feel get dragged to, um, maybe I do a reel instead because it reaches more people, but I'm like, no, I just feel like posting a.

Picture and so I'm gonna jump on post a picture. Yes. I'm always fighting, I'm always have this inside dialogue of knowing what works, but just [00:11:00] still doing what I feel like doing. And so, yeah, so I keep now my, my, my account, I don't do many collaborations because I don't wanna think about performance, but I help others with performance.

Silvia: Yeah, I can't imagine the amount of like considerations or calculations that you must have to go through in your work and your personal creative efforts, because all of your work goes back to like your gut feeling, right? Like of what you, what resonates with you. So how do you nurture that, protect that while also being productive and effective with your work?

Ana: Yeah. One thing that helped was to, when I started the agency, it helped to feel like, okay, I don't rely. Anymore on Instagram by my income. So basically I was able to build then a job for myself that's, it was built for myself. It was built by me. And so I could still do the things that I love, but I was not stressed anymore about, okay, I need to post this for these clients because of the performance.

And that helped a lot. And since then I don't, I didn't really feel anymore. Pressure. There's [00:12:00] always pressure to be, to stay relevant in a big crowd, which now is social media, right now, it's so many people that it's, it's really, it's redundant to try to be relevant. It's just if it's, that's not your goal just to stay true to your brand because that's the only thing that then people can really rely on.

See, like I, they know if they like my content, then they don't, nothing's gonna change. That's the content that I post, but I try to post it for myself mostly. This is basically, I try to. I really love taking architectural pictures and that's not what I do all the time, but I use now the channel to fully present that part of what I like, which is architectural photography.

So I keep the channel very clean on just communicating that that part of my interests. And, and everything else work-wise, I keep it for myself. It doesn't go on social media.

Silvia: I

Building a career out of side hustles
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Silvia: think people naturally will flock to a certain hobby or thing or like side gig. How do you, do you have any advice for people that might want to really turn that into something or build something from [00:13:00] their hobbies?

What has helped you

Ana: in the past?

I was lucky that it happened naturally, but right now it's very conscious. Like we all have now a new platforms that we didn't have before. So if we wanna build a business of about, of a hobby, we have platforms that can put out our services out there and our work out there without much effort or much or bigger budget.

So it's basically, if they're really passionate about something and if it comes naturally to publish the outcome of what they do and the way they document what they're doing, then it's really easy and I will really advise to put it out there. Nothing to lose really, and but I know by talking with a lot of architects, They're also very much professionals and everything needs to be perfection and social media doesn't really go well with perfection.

And so a lot of architects stepped back from it and, and keep it very private because it's not perfect yet. And, but I, I feel like it's better to put it out and to also show the creative process behind it that sometimes is messy. And that's, it's not always perfect, [00:14:00] it's just to have a little window so that people can peak in and see what else this person to do or would love to do other than architecture.

Yeah.

Ad Break
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Silvia: Yeah, you mentioned before that like how you were naive a little in like trying so many things, but when you said that, it reminded me that architects, it's hard to be naive as an architect, I feel you will quickly realize that that will maybe not be like something helpful in your the career. As an architect to be naive, I feel like you'll get disheartened very quickly.

It's nice to see that like you moved away from architecture and was able to embrace all of this passion and emotion in your work. So when you're talking about the progress, which I love, back when I was working in an office, like spending, you've mentioned spending months and months on something, and that is tough.

But at the end, all of the iterations and all of the work that went into. Your final product. And that always was a source of pride for me. So I It's great that you highlight that you should share [00:15:00] the progress and the process of everything, because I think that's the most interesting part. That's where all the value and work is

Ana: in.

Yeah. And that, that work, and that's why architects are so in, are interested in different fields because that work is influenced by different things. And so one of my favorite accounts is the creative director from Nike, and I follow his account. He's one of the account Instagram accounts with more posts.

So it's right now six 60,000 images or something. Basically because he used Instagram as as inspiration. Everything. He sees its documents in this. Instead of having a moskin, having, instead of having a sketchbook, he uses Instagram to capture everything he sees. That finds an interesting, and then that's his mood board for the next trend, the next design.

And I feel like. Architects for sure do this in different platforms, in different mo, different sketches, different um, go to different exhibitions, travel to see different inspirations, but that's. Doesn't really have a place to, to be seen. And maybe there's an opportunity there to, it's not just about the end result, it's about everything else and [00:16:00] influence this end result.

And a lot of people can see that and maybe can expired as well. Actually. That's

There's always a story to tell
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Silvia: very interesting because you mentioned that you do architectural photography, right? Which I feel like so many people understand architecture through these really glamorized, finished photos of the work. So how do you.

Balance that. Is there a way to highlight more than the final product? For me,

Ana: one of the most beautiful parts of, of construction is the, in, in German we see hoba, which is when there's, it is just a structure, it's just the empty, concrete structure. So there's, until the final project is that there's so many beautiful faces that I'm never really exposed The construction part of it, it stays with the project manager and with the architects responsible for it.

So there, there's. An opportunity to see the project in different way until it's finished, but also then the concept behind it. There's a story to tell that that can be told in, in in different ways. Right now we have access to so many types of images and videos and we can just basically can put together [00:17:00] different types of content and tell the story of the creative process that went through in order to.

To design this project. The images at the end, just at the end, the images, there's not much then to say about it is more like, okay, then people share because it's beautiful, but the content of it is something else. It's what made it beautiful. Yeah,

Silvia: absolutely. I think architects are. Part of our skill is to be storytellers.

Ana: This is something that I actually, now that you mentioned, I didn't wanna forget about that. This was something that I was missing. Like after, after leaving architecture and working in the creative field in the in for an agency, what I really missed was talk, talking to people. that are storytellers and architects are so good at that.

Every time they talk about, they describe things with. Feelings like colors, with feelings and with the way they perceive things. They're very sensitive and those are qualities of storytellers that I don't see in other humans. And this, I was reminded of that by doing other things and miss it and go back.

And now I love having meetings in briefings with architects. One of my favorite briefings is an architect talk, talking [00:18:00] to me about the project. So I have the information to photograph it. I wanna know exactly what went through, what was the process, the creative process behind it, and just hearing them, talking about the way they see it and why they did such a project.

It's always refreshing to me and it's very beautiful. Always very important. That

Silvia: is one of my favorite things since the beginning of architecture. I used to think it was about the idea encapsulated within the building or like a part, like a material or like a design. But it's actually the story. It's not like just the idea.

It's the way that they relate it together and stir some emotion inside the person

Ana: listening. Yeah. Yeah. So they had a meeting that it was, again, very inspiring. They presented to me, they presented a project that they wanted me to photograph, but they just told me the story of why they designed it the way they designed it, and basically was just, It was a wish of the family.

They have now five kids. They all went out of the house and now they wanna build a f a house that they are. They want to come back. So the children wants to spend time with their parents in a new house. [00:19:00] That, and for me, this is something that, I don't know how to photograph that, but I will do my best because that story is already much, it's much bigger than the object itself.

Silvia: I'm curious, I feel like architects are very similar sometimes in like very, the methodical or like very creative. So when you're trying to work with them for, you mentioned communication before in addition to the photography. Are there any ways that you have learned how to get something out of them that they might not themselves know?

Ana: I'm currently doing a communication project with, with architects in Portugal called, and that was a very special project because they are, they're just starting it. So they are one and a half years old. And so with my background of building my own company and figuring out our purpose as a company and what we wanna do with our work, what's the message we wanna.

Pass on to the work that we do this kind of understanding I could use to help them doing that. Right now, they are just busy doing projects, but they are figuring out who [00:20:00] they are and what they want to communicate as a company, as what's the purpose, what is their line of thinking, and there is where I come in and I'm helping them.

So basically it's easy to put the parts that they finish. On Instagram and say, here, this is their portfolio, but, but what's their intention? What are their beliefs? So basically they're very much into building a better future, uh, recycling materials, sustainable architecture. And this is a story to tell that this is much more valuable than the actual results is.

This is basically, there's a lot of work to be done there, and that's the same for every company. So every company has a, a manifesto, a statement, and so architects are not different, especially in the markets. There are also crowded as every market, and there is, it's one of the ways that I can help, not because I'm an expert on it, but I have experience with it, and so it's basically connecting the dots between knowing how architects work, knowing how social media work, and knowing a bit of how managing what it takes to manage a company.

Then the result [00:21:00] is that I can maybe help focus on what's the goal of the company and how to communicate it.

Silvia: What have you seen with managing companies that might be a little surprising or unexpected in Cuz I think a lot of offices or architectural offices in particular, they're just run so focused on the projects, but they maybe aren't the best places to work.

So I'm wondering if from your experiences, what might be a little surprising that people might not be aware of?

Ana: It's a good question. I did until now. It didn't really, I was not really surprised. I was just, I, I already, I, now that I stepped out of architecture for a few years, I now came back. So my friends that were also just interns and then junior architects when I was a junior architect, they now have their own offices and now I can see through their experience how they're managing much, much different than their.

Where they started, and this is a generational thing, and basically the same as us. We were [00:22:00] educated by our parents, but now that I'm a mother, I'm already educating differently then so and so I'm, when I'm talking to, to a more old school architect, I, and I cannot tell you, I cannot say that I'm very surprised, but I'm very hopeful when I see a younger generation, my generation now having their own offices and their own companies and how they are now managing.

Differently. So it's much by the names. Before you always saw the names is always the name of the office is the name of the owner of the office. And now you see collaborative efforts. So names, they are basically a collective and that's how they then work because it's all, it's, it's a team that works for one cause.

And it's not just a team working for a bus and the bus being known by the work that is done. So this is now a bit different. So I'm not surprised, but I'm hopeful it's

Silvia: what kind of environment do you wanna work in? Like now if you are in a position where you can create that for yourself and your fellow coworkers.

Ana: And I feel of course, COVID and my area is well in the creative agency. I also feel it's covid and the way we perceive work. After [00:23:00] this, the two years of lockdown of course, influenced a lot, and now we see a complete different approach to how we work and why we work. It's not as, as, as something, even as before, it's okay, I have to work.

It's like maybe there's different ways of working.

Silvia: Can you share a little more about what you've seen since Covid? You've mentioned like even why to work.

Ana: Or what to work for. Yeah, what work for is, and I think's now we're now in the next situation, which is with ai. I remember seeing, so this is another level, which I find it's super exciting right now.

When Covid, when the first lockdown kicked in from my agency was super busy because we were all just with laptops. We were working for social media and video, video production. So we took our laptops home and we continue working as usual when it comes to architects. They work with 3D programs and they have these big machines, these big software machine, and they, so they had to really, they are not in the office, but they are still stuck in, in an office at home because they are stuck with these machines.

And now when an AI is [00:24:00] gonna come in and maybe all these softwares maybe are not necessary anymore, and everything can be done so much easily, there's gonna be some sort of freedom now that I'm curious to see what is the outcome and how that could actually improve. Not only the outcome of the work, but especially how we work and, and on what we work.

What is the purpose of the work? It's it hopefully. This is something, it's gonna be very different from my days at architecture, which I just basically, I come at nine o'clock and I leave at five o'clock, and it's just, even if my job will be done as, no, I'm hired to be from nine to five. So we need to be, here's like this kind of mindset is clocking, clock out doesn't have a place anymore, and I hope that that also translates.

Architecture, the creative work doesn't happen in front of the laptop sitting on the desk.

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. I find that's a really quick way to burn people out, is to chain them to their desks and then do the same type of work over and over. So I'm not surprised at all why people would want to see what else is out there.

Especially [00:25:00] as you mentioned before, like there's so many creative aspirations that you have that you can't do at the

desk.

Ana: Yeah, and know it's possible with ai, you don't, might not need to know the software to, okay, if you're interested in video production or if you're interested in doing renderings before you need to know 3d.

And right now you have New journey. So you can, you can have a vision and you can just describe what you wanna see. You don't need to have all of these limitations of a software to actually fulfill your vision and move forward in the creative process. So I'm excited about it.

Silvia: What's gonna be even more valuable?

I think at one point in time, as like a architect or design professional, there was so much skills you needed to have, as you mentioned. Yeah. And you were hired based on your abilities to do those programs and to work in those programs. So now you. Especially in this new age of like where brands and like pe, how people are brands that you have to really develop your own vision or point of view.

Yes. So much more than ever before.

Ana: Yeah. I think being creative is gonna be a much [00:26:00] bigger asset other than being so crafted. So it's about the work that is done in in the mind. So basically it's your currency right now is how creative you are and and how you can adapt to different things. It's not about your skills.

I feel because you need to adapt really quickly and, and skills will take time. So it's more about how you can adapt to things. Can you

Silvia: share what that looks like in your day-to-day work? Both for the agency, but also just in general, like how you find creativity and inspiration and things?

Using Technology to Aid In The Creative Process
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Ana: Yeah, so basically, and this is one of the things that I.

I also bring from architecture. So one of the knowledges that I bring from architecture to my work is to be very structured in the way that I create my, my workflow and the tools that I use. And I always try to find like templates. So basically when I, if I'm gonna create assets, I don't start from scratch anymore.

So I, every time I do something, I think about, okay, I'm creating a template that I'm gonna use it again later, but I'm gonna [00:27:00] use it now for this. And now a template is done in the software and I can go back to it and use it again. Right now, there's so many different software that helps you skip so much part of the creative process that was taking so much time that you can now can do it much faster and you can dedicate the time that you have left to to think about. The real reason why you're doing it and maybe the bigger picture of it. So it's not about creating content. Creating content is so easy. It's about what's the content, what are we talking about and why are we talking about, and why are we sharing it? And so this is basically what I'm using now. Like I use G P T on, it's always open.

I use Canva layouts, I use Google Drive to share with my team so it's everything is shared and everything is on the web. So I have access to it all the time, so I can do it. From wherever I am. And uh, and so those tools are here to help us for sure. And it's not about quantity, it's not about, now we can do more.

I think it's more about that's the next challenge. It's more about, okay, how can we understand? Now I'm pastor [00:28:00] doing this, but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna do more of this. It's more. I'm faster of doing things that will take so much time and will not really need my brain power for it so I can use my brain for something else.

Silvia: That's really cool to hear and it's a really refreshing approach to things instead of feeling, oh, cuz I, people will say that. Oh, Canva, now anyone can create anything. Even like the way the Photoshop tools have come, it's like things used to be so much harder to do and now it's a click of the button. But at the same time, then you can do things faster and more of, and you don't get stuck into the weeds of getting something

Ana: done.

A hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm just happy that more people are doing these things because that only means that more people were anyway interested in doing it now, just that they just have the tools to be able to do it. It's, it's not that, it's not about competition, it's more about understanding why we use the tools and how can we use in the best capacity.

Silvia: Yeah. And going back to what you said, your creative process or your, like, your vision is what's [00:29:00] gonna set you apart, not your ability of the using tools.

Ana: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Life changes, motherhood, changing identities
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Silvia: You mentioned earlier that you moved away from Instagram because you wanted to control, like not be dependent on Instagram for your income.

You men also mentioned you changed your priorities when you became a mother. Can you share about that? Was it. A natural step or did you realize it after the

Ana: fact? Both of those things were actually aftermath and it was not as simple as it sounded when I said it. It actually went, went. I went through different identity crisis in my life and the biggest one becoming a mom, that was actually the hardest one so far.

So all of these changes in career and all of these adaptations also comes with a lot of identity crisis because we are in a society that we are. What we do, and if we change it, then we go to a crisis and we need to adapt and we figure out, okay, who am I now? Or how do I wanna be perceived or whatever, ego.

Basically it's, we're talking about ego, and ego is very fragile, although we want it to be [00:30:00] as strong as possible. But yeah, so I, it came by chance that I wasn't invited by this friend of mine that knows my, that is my husband, to, to join his idea of starting an agency because he did have the knowledge from communication.

He did, but he didn't have the knowledge from social media that I had. So basically we joined forces on that, and together we were able to, to get clients really quickly. And, and there, of course, it's not that I planned. To stop doing Instagram. I said I couldn't continue to put out content as much as I was doing it before because I didn't have a full-time job.

And Instagram became the second priority. And once it becomes second priority, if you're not focused, it is a job. And if you don't really fully work on it, then the performance goes down and it's uh, it was not so easy to let it go because it was like, oh, that was so fun. That was really fun, what I had.

But at the same time, there was also this perception of, okay, this. It's a bubble. It's like I cannot, also, I, it's a market that is changing and maybe I will not say relevant is for so long and it's better to start. Building something [00:31:00] else where I can rely on. And that was the idea of the agency. But the first one and a half years was difficult.

I was doing half, I was still going on trips to sponsor trips and doing some PR through Instagram and then coming back and go to the office and do agency work. And then until at the moment, I, I let it go. And then I was happy to let it go and say, okay, now it's actually cool because I can post whatever I want and my income doesn't really rely on it.

But there was a transition phase where I was like, who am I? What do I do? Am I photographer? Am I creative director? And then came. The biggest change, which was when I became pregnant, there was not a change because I was working until the day before she was born. So I kept on working. The maternity leave was really hard for me.

It was really hard because I move a lot. I travel a lot. I need a lot of people. I rely on people in connections to, to develop, to get new ideas through conversations, to really figure out what's next. And then this year that the year of maternity leave also was locked on. So I was very much at home and big crisis came in because [00:32:00] I didn't in identify myself as a mom and I lost everything else that I was identifying with.

And, but again, it was just a harder one, a longer one. But right now I adapted to it and it came with the benefits of I now I perceive things differently. I perceive time differently as well. I know now the amount of energy I have, and so, How much I can do and what to focus on. So it really, it's not a cliche when moms, when parents say, that really helps with priorities because with all these, all these career changes, like it's basically all, there's more and more opportunities and now with motherhood it's filtering, okay, I could do this and that, but my energy is and my time limited, so I only gonna do this.

So yeah. Right now I'm very much focused on the agency and video production and, and I use architectural photography. To charge. Basically. Those are the moments that I can go away and I'm lucky enough to have support that I can leave my daughter with my husband and I just like some days. And then I really use that to recharge and to come back.

So it's not just a [00:33:00] job, it's actually something that I need as me as Anna, not as a mother. So all of those are, all of these things are learnings. They are very valuable. But they don't come as easy as they might

Silvia: sound. Yeah. I can't imagine. And thank you so much for sharing about that because it was like a, a journey, a harder transition for you to make.

I feel like there's a lot of unlearning. That has to happen because when you're young, when you're trying to grow in your career, I feel like you just wanna, I can just keep working. Like I, I think that's such like a architect's mindset. Sometimes it's, oh, we're, we'll just work late when it's going up to the deadline, like it's expected.

But that's how we'll get the work that we need done in. And to really step back, it's hard to be like, no, I don't know how many situations you can really just say no to the project because there's like lots of circumstances, but. I feel like as you grow, get older, even like your energy's not the same and you have to watch out for that same, and sometimes you don't even realize it.[00:34:00]

Ana: No, not at all. And it was a very long journey of learning for me, still believing that I could do everything because that's how it was used to. And yes, I did a lot of nights. Every pizza we did for agency, I did after work. So I would do our work and then I will pitch for the next project during the nights with my partners.

And because we had the freedom to do that, we will just. Drink up coffee and stay all night and deliver and win competitions and then go party and then wake up early the next morning. All of those things, not possible right now. And but also that also was helpful in the way that then now I approach projects, they approach clients because before it was more about projects.

Okay, so I would pitch, I will do this project, and right now I rather. I would rather pitch, okay, I can work with you this amount of hours so I can you, I can guarantee my attention to you and to your problem, to your needs four hours a week because I can myself manage better to understand how much capacity I have during the week.

It's [00:35:00] not limited as it was before.

Defining Succcess
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Silvia: What would you say now, at this stage in your life, how would you define success?

Ana: Actually, success is. Having a good life, working as late as possible. Success. So success changed really. The idea of success changed really a lot because I was about like having the coolest project and winning prices and getting the coolest clients and right.

And right now it's not really like that. Success is basically having my work valued in a way that I don't need to work, I don't need to work as hard to keep my lifestyle and to, basically, success is the most amount of time I spend with my daughter. Keeping my lifestyle that's successful. It's just make, it's working smarter and just being literally more intelligent on the way that I work and that I put my energy into things.

But yeah, again, it's not as easy as, as you said, because if you're passionate about what you do, you always go over the borders and you keep on thinking about it and wake up in the during the night, then I have an idea and I wanted to work on it. [00:36:00] But, but yeah, it's pleasure anyway.

Silvia: I'm curious, you mentioned working smarter, not harder, and I, I think a lot of this comes from experience in like doing things one way and then realizing like there are, I don't have to do it that way.

There are better ways to save time, save energy. Do you think you can do that? Because I feel like in architecture, There's always, it's really hard for younger people to be, to make it to like a successful place in their career because of the experience that's not as widely shared sometimes. So I'm curious your thoughts on like how you can achieve those, like that valuable insights, but maybe not way 20 years into your

Ana: career.

Be Curious and willing to learn
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Ana: I don't have an answer for that, but I, that information, that kind of knowhow is when I hire someone, I have that in the back of my mind. I really don't hire based on the experience that the person has or how good that they are in certain things. I mostly, I'm mostly hired on the, on [00:37:00] their mindsets and their energy on like how curious they are.

How willing are they to learn new things and how adaptable they are, because with those skills, then you can do whatever you want. It's really not about, Becoming experience and becoming really good at something. It's more about how elastic your mind is to adapt to different things, because the world is always changing, and if you spend 20 years on something that then is not relevant anymore,

Silvia: thank you for that reminder that it's not just the experience.

It's like the mindset that, and plus experience that really helps you fly.

Ana: Yeah, but you're very, you are very right in, in, in pointing that because it is still very much in architecture because the, it, it's still very much in the mindset of the architects and the practice of architecture. I feel that will change slowly.

I just see those changes much faster and the fields that I work right now and slowly will be then also changing the world of architecture for sure. But I'm still very much fan of masters like [00:38:00] and yeah, it's so and those were my heroes when I was. Setting architecture and it's all about experience. It's all about mastering something and, and yeah.

I'm curious what are gonna be the heroes of, of tomorrow?

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. Especially in the changing landscape where it's like you said, not just one person and more collaborative and more like the tools we have are so much different. Can't we wait to see? Yeah. Yes. So one of the questions we like to end in, how would you define an architect in your own words?

Ana: An architect in my own words. An architect, it's a thinker, a passionate thinker, a problem solver, and a dreamer for sure.

Silvia: Yes, absolutely. Sometimes I think that's the most important one. So the dreamer part

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Anna as much as I did. Now let's hear from Jasmine, from the out of architecture team.

Highlight - Jasmine Hwang
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Jasmine: My name is [00:39:00] Jasmine. I actually studied biology for my undergrad and then got into interior architecture program for graduate school. And since then I work at an architecture company for five years. And currently, in transitioning, I myself is still figuring out where I'm going, but I think I'm enjoying the process and. I'm at a point where I'm like bringing all the little parts and pieces and reorganizing to see what path I want to pursue. Yeah. I've been trying different things in my own to figure out what I want to do.

Silvia: What advice would you give your self back then, like when you were in the middle of your transition? Is there any advice you would give yourself?

Jasmine: I think there's this term called in Korea and the direct translation is fucking Persevere. [00:40:00] And what I would tell myself is, you are persevering, so just do your best, keep going. Like externally. It might not seem like you're doing a lot, but I think internally still doing a lot of work, but you're just not realizing.

Silvia: Okay. I think that's a really nice reminder that you're doing your best and that's great.

Jasmine: Yeah. I wish everybody would feel the same way, even though they might not feel like it, but I think everybody is genuinely doing their best and I think it's really important to be able to realize that because there's a lot of time you wouldn't feel that way at that certain time and.

It's hard to, I think, see in a different light sometimes, and even when there's so many different opportunities for like people to tell you or show you that like you're doing your best. If you're just so wrapped in [00:41:00] their head, you don't see that. I think that just want to share that everybody's doing their best.