Ep 12: A Passion for Listening, Learning & Helping with Nate Steinrueck
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Nate: [00:00:00] that's what I'm really passionate about is really helping find that alignment for people. And then they can take that from there and sort of.~ sort of. ~Accelerate and go above and beyond within that role. So they can be successful. So I think it's not just about ~like, ~Hey, this is what you're doing today.

Nate: This is the next thing that you could do. I really want to make sure that that next position is ~sort of ~like a trampoline, a jumping off point

Silvia: welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture. Out of Architecture is a career resource network helping designers apply their incredible talents in untraditional ways. We're highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we've met along the way. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the wide variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.

Silvia: Our guest today, Nate Stein, Rick product strategist at outer labs shares his journey from studying anthropology to working in architecture and eventually [00:01:00] transitioning into the tech industry. He emphasizes the importance of being a good listener, learner and helper in his work and how these qualities have shaped his career.

Silvia: Nate is also one of the great out of architecture advisors that you could work with. If you have any questions. Uh, About your career journey.

Silvia: Listen to the end to hear a highlight from Rachel Gresham, senior director professional practice programs at the American Institute of architects.

Silvia: Really glad to have you here today. So how would you describe yourself in three words?

Nate: Yeah. So I would say I strive to be a listener, a learner, and a helper. And I can, those are somewhat related.

Nate: I can go into more detail on those items, but those three words ~sort of, um, ~yeah, capture

Silvia: it. Yeah, why don't you,~ uh,~ give a little background about how those really, I really like them,~ uh, listener, sorry, can you repeat them again? Listener. ~

Nate: Yeah,~ so, uh, ~listener, learner, and helper, and those are, are definitely items that, words that kind of speak to me in terms of ~like, ~what also I, I [00:02:00] strive to be every day as well, which is really ~like ~listen and understand where people are coming from and in the case of my role, understand their needs and what they're, they're trying to do.

Nate: But,~ um,~ I've also just always been fascinated to learn about people,~ uh,~ and their background and their their perspective as well. And then also,~ uh,~ in terms of learning to me, learning is just incredibly important and it requires that ability to. ~Uh, ~let go of your assumptions and also let go of what, ~you know, ~today in, as you learn new things.

Nate: And so I really like that process of,~ um,~ yeah, that, that process of needing to actually let go to then learn something new, kind of like open and expand your horizons,~ um,~ based on new information that you have learned. And then the last one as well,~ like, um. ~Yeah. Being a helper. So doing that through,~ uh,~ helping people on my team or helping people that I work [00:03:00] with directly both,~ uh,~ just like in my background as well.

Nate: ~Um, ~both my, my parents as well, or work in the service industry in different capacities. ~Uh, ~but that's something that has always ring true for me, both just like on a personal level, helping other people, but also. In terms of the artifacts and projects that I work on that those also can help people and organizations as well.

Nate: Yeah,

Silvia: I really love those words that you chose. ~Um, ~I also relate to those a lot. And I think actually the way that I try to be good as an architect or good in my role is actually like a large part of that is helping. I think early on someone told me to ~like, ~make your boss's life easier. And I think as a young architect, especially in this industry, that is pretty applicable.

Silvia: It's ~like, ~you have to think ahead at what your boss might need. And if you're doing a cover, like taking care of things for them before they even realize there's an issue. ~Like, ~I think that's ~kind of ~how you move up in the role, but I ~kind of ~really embodied that. And just. Being helpful, maybe a little [00:04:00] like at a detriment to myself sometimes, but like I really like those words.

Silvia: I'm super excited to see how they come out in the rest of your story. And why don't you tell us a little bit about your background in architecture.

Nate: Yeah, so my background is in architecture, but I did not have a traditional journey, both into or out of architecture. I actually went to a sustainability college to study anthropology, so that I could learn about people.

Nate: And. I happen to take this course called,~ uh, ~ nature of design. And in that course, it really unlocked this whole new world,~ uh,~ to me in terms of how design and architecture,~ um,~ both have an impact on people's lives and society, but also just understanding why the world, it is the way it is today.

Nate: What was really exciting about that course though was it was both that lens through which to just understand our world, but then also realizing, Hey, we can actually make things to have an impact on that world. [00:05:00] And. I ~kind of ~set out to do just that and ~kind of ~work at multiple scales of that kind of making and creating to, yeah, have a positive impact on other people's lives.

Nate: And so what that looked like for me before going into architecture specifically was. Working really at all levels, different scales of, of products. So first started on a very small scale, working on a push bike for kids to then working on digital fabrication, work on mobile homes, tiny houses for people.

Nate: And then,~ um,~ also health clinics in Guatemala and like a training center as well, there to all the way to like those larger scale projects,~ um,~ to, ~so. ~And then eventually to then like working on digital products that then have a larger scale impact as well. ~Um, ~yeah, so through those and one thing I would say like at each step of the way, there was [00:06:00] like multiple, ~um.~

Nate: I should say this. So yeah, through each one of those steps, like working at those multiple scales started to ~like ~open up the lens a little bit each step of the way to see how that design, or in this case, like a piece of a product or an artifact that you create actually have an impact on the world. And so in the case of the push bike, which was for kids, I actually made that for my little brother.

Nate: 10 years old at the time, saw that immediate,~ um,~ reaction of riding that pushbike all the way to, ~you know, ~working more at the community level, making those tiny houses to then at a health clinic that had more like a town wide impact and then moving to architecture. ~Like ~that was almost like more at the city scale, like either working on a tower or,~ um,~ also ~like ~worked on a church expansion project to now just making things on the, [00:07:00] the digital side are actually used like on a global portfolio.

Nate: So that's ~kind of ~like the trajectory of,~ um,~ yeah, the types of projects that I've been involved with.

Silvia: What are you working on today or where are you working today?

Nate: Yeah, so I'm a product strategist at Outer Labs, and we work on,~ um,~ building digital tools for,~ uh,~ our clients that use that for,~ uh,~ scaling their real estate portfolio.

Nate: And that's, ~you know, ~typically on a global scale and that actually impacts how people work and live and get their jobs done every single day. ~Um, ~

Silvia: ~um,~ can you... Explain a little bit ~like, uh,~ is there ~like ~an architectural side of Outer Lives? Or Explain ~like, what I'm trying to ask is like, uh, I guess how your experiences in the past contribute to what you're working on today?~

Silvia: ~Or like, yeah, how your past experiences or~ what you've taken away from ~like, uh, ~your studies or your experiences as an, in architecture? ~Like, uh, ~how do they translate to your work today?

Nate: at outer labs and we're primarily a,~ um,~ services business. So we work with large tech companies and we take their processes and do this kind of [00:08:00] digital transformation exercise to make web based.

Nate: Design and planning tools. So it is a technology company at outer labs. There's a collection of expertise and background in terms of the both myself and the other people that I work with have both expertise. In architecture and working in the architecture industry as well as technology. And so there's ~kind of ~this wealth of experience and expertise at that convergence of we have industry veterans in tech, and then also industry veterans in architecture.

Nate: And so some of that translation aspect is, ~you know, ~having worked in architecture, just having that domain expertise around buildings and what it means to get a project built, which is a very complex process and multi multifaceted requires a lot of different people and stakeholders. To get a project built.

Nate: So having knowledge of that [00:09:00] process is really helpful in just my day to day job, when we're talking with our clients or working through the products that we're developing, having an intimate understanding of this is what architects do, this is what designers do, this is what developers do and understanding those viewpoints and the types of questions that they're asking is really helpful.

Silvia: And,~ uh,~ can you share a little more about your role as a product strategist? Our last interview, actually, our guest was saying how architects should be strategists. And like the way of design has ~kind of ~shifted very much. ~So, uh, ~today it's ~kind of ~just ~like, ~sometimes it's just giving you, giving the client what they want and like creating it for them.

Silvia: And ~like, ~our input is like very different, but our value is as a strategist.

Nate: Yeah. ~I mean, ~going back to that original, like learning and listening to really understanding people. And I think that's really at the core of what my role is today as well, which is really understanding who is using our tool, [00:10:00] how they're using it and the types of jobs that they're trying to get done in the, in their work.

Nate: And how can we make that process more efficient? And better for them. And so that's ~kind of ~like the, one of the core aspects of, of the job and then translating that to the team and, and, and also to the client as well in terms of communicating that. So there's also that educational piece as well. And ~so, ~yeah, as a product strategist, you're both learning from the people that you're working through and then also translating.

Nate: Those sometimes like complex processes distilling that information into like ~sort of ~actionable insights to then drive the product forward so that we can better address the people that we're serving.

Silvia: ~Um, uh, ~Do you see a lot of similarities in the way that architects work through problems and projects as well,~ um,~ and how you handle your products today, even though it's a different,~ um,~ medium, like one's digital, [00:11:00] one's built, and there's completely different,~ um, like, uh, ~factors that would,~ uh,~ control the, how the project is going on, but I feel like the problem solving part of it is something architects,~ like,~ do very well and can translate very

Nate: easily.

Nate: Yeah, ~I mean, ~you can think of everything as like a design problem or a design opportunity. So there is that process of like research and synthesis and then translating that into an idea and then designing something that then ~like ~addresses those needs. So you do go through that design process. I would say that when you're working at an architecture firm, you are going through that process, but it might be That you're not doing as much, it depends on the project and kind of firm that you're working on, but you might not be doing as much of the front end research and discovery aspect of things, and you might be more working on like executing the project.

Nate: So what I found at least is I really liked that beginning part, which was [00:12:00] really like fun and exciting for me. And yes, it's great to like work through like construction documents and sort of like execute on those as well. ~Um, ~but that was really like the primary task, especially when I was like working at an architecture firm was building out those construction documents for that project to be built.

Nate: ~Um, ~so I'm not sure if that answers your question completely, but yeah, and certainly in terms of ~like ~identifying problems and finding solutions and then like addressing the needs, I would just say ~like, ~there's just. Maybe an additional layer that it's helpful to, and we can get into this in a little bit as well, which is when you go to different disciplines, they have different,~ um,~ historical methods that they use.

Nate: And that's what I find so exciting about actually working in different industries is that we can learn a ton from different industries. Like in the beginning, you mentioned like how valuable anticipating is. ~Like, ~that's something that I also learned in the construction [00:13:00] industry is like, especially when you're starting out, if you can anticipate what that next step is in building, ~you know, ~if you're putting up sheet rock or something, or framing up a building,~ uh,~ anticipating what the next step is, is, is, is extremely valuable.

Nate: So you don't have to like, go back and go grab a drill or something. So all those. items and working in these different contexts start to build upon one another. You ~kind of ~learn valuable lessons,~ uh,~ in each one of those roles and contexts. Yeah,

Silvia: absolutely. I, I think I needed to get used to this as I became an adult or ~like, uh, ~progressed in my career, but like the getting comfortable with not knowing much about ~Like, ~not really knowing much about everything that I need to know,~ like,~ I, I always hoped there was a point I would get to where I knew enough and I could be comfortable.

Silvia: And now I know that I will never get to that point. And that like everything that comes along my way, I ~kind of ~just have to figure out as I go or become the expert on it, educate myself and just understand [00:14:00] it. And I, I struggled with that a lot as like a younger architect is just like, how am I supposed to know everything?

Silvia: I have no idea what to do, so I think those like what you said about like listening, learning and anticipating and ~kind of ~just like reading the room almost like, how do I navigate what's in front of me? I think like those are skills you develop

Nate: along the way. Yeah, definitely. ,

Silvia: I also liked what you said,~ um,~ how you really appreciated that research side of things beforehand. And I assume that's ~kind of ~what led you along your path,~ uh,~ to where you are today. ~Uh, ~was there, or like, how did you ~kind of, uh, ~decide where, like what, what roles to look for or transition to, or ~like, ~or to take your career?

Nate: Yeah, in my circumstance, I was not actually really ~like ~looking for roles in particular. I think in, in my case, it was more looking at my, the experience that I had to date and thinking about the types of things that I appreciated and enjoyed [00:15:00] doing. And at first seeing how I could do that in my current context and what that looked like at an architecture firm was actually like working on.

Nate: The items that related to ~like ~the firm wide level operations and making that more efficient. So like working on templates and processes. And in that case, it was like using technology to make those like a little bit more efficient. So not everyone would just be like starting from ground zero every single time that they start a project.

Nate: ~Um, ~and then also ~like ~taking the firms. Got design guidance and actually like making it actionable through the tools that we were using. So in that way,~ um, uh, ~in terms of like, when I was starting to like assess opportunities as they came, that was like a lens through which I started to like filter,~ like,~ Hey, I really ~like ~to work on more of this research side of things.

Nate: And [00:16:00] so when that initial opportunity came to work in like design research and,~ uh,~ and product design at. Cove tool that was my first initial role out of architecture. That was a really good, that just made a lot of sense to me because I'd already been working on those items in terms of ~like, ~yeah, getting people on board to this, these new systems, but as well as just like making architects lives easier as well, and then also like more on that research and discovery side of things was always something I was just a little bit more passionate about.

Nate: And so when I. ~You know, ~started to read through, it was like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. I can actually do this full time. And that's where it's like the element of just ~like ~starting to align more of your strengths and also passions,~ uh,~ with that next like career position that you look forward and that could mean.

Nate: Maybe something within your architecture firm or something adjacent, or it could mean making a leap into something completely unknown. ~Um, ~but knowing that even if you do go [00:17:00] to something completely unknown, that like you said, you start to be okay with that unknown, but just have trust that you have learned how to learn new things and that whatever situation you go into, you can use those.

Nate: That is your basis to then learn what you need to in that new role.

Silvia: Yeah, I think there's so many,~ um,~ similarities in that story to a lot of people who transition out of architecture. ~Um, ~it happens very organically. A lot of people say they're not looking for it, but they ~kind of ~just do more of what they want, either want to have in the world or want to be working on and then the opportunities kind of start revealing themselves.

Silvia: ~Um, ~I'm curious. Were there any,~ like,~ thoughts you had as you started,~ um, like, ~for example, doing more work inside the firm's,~ uh,~ operations? Or when you saw,~ uh,~ job postings that kind of aligned to you, were there any,~ like, like, ~light bulbs or,~ like,~ things that you remarked to yourself that,~ like,~ oh yeah, you, you mentioned,~ like,~ I, I could do this for,~ like,~ a full time job?

Silvia: But,~ um,~ was it also something like, I just want [00:18:00] this to happen. I'm tired of it not happening. So ~like, ~let me just do it. Or ~like, ~I really want to fix this. ~Like, ~I'm just going to do it. ~Like ~what kind of ~like, uh, uh, ~motivations did you have along the way?

Nate: Yeah, in terms of like actually like working in an architecture firm, like what those some of those motivations were

Silvia: ~kind of ~kind of like the whole process, because what I'm trying to share with listeners is that,~ um,~ I think everyone gets these little pushes or ~like, uh, ~sees things sees different opportunities, but sometimes they pass.

Silvia: So what are those sparks that you see that made you jump on it. ~Um, ~for me, one of them is I have to try it or if I do it, I'm better off anyway, ~like ~or ~like ~this opportunity is too big for me to not try to ~like ~go for so things like that I hope will be encouraging to people when they see those situations happen in their life.

Nate: So ~I mean, ~not to get like too personal or psychological, but just to provide like a little bit of,~ um,~ personal background as well. Like I B I did not have this like traditional journey of ~like ~getting into architecture school and like doing architecture, like I barely even ~like ~[00:19:00] got into college to begin with.

Nate: And so through every position that I've had. Whether it's been healthy or not, there's this underlying, like wanting to provide value to that job that I'm, that I have and really striving really hard to do that. ~So, ~ so when I would like work in an architecture firm, I was really motivated to make a difference in that architecture firm. And there's kind of like two elements to that, which is one is ~like, ~yes, you kind of like want to prove your, your valuableness to that firm, but also there's an element of.

Nate: Selfishness as well, in terms of if you move this firm forward, if you're working in an architecture firm, that's going to,~ um,~ in the long run, if you can help move that architecture firm forward, that then,~ like,~ reflects well on you that you worked at this place that then has,~ like,~ a nice standing and has been able to go [00:20:00] on and do good work, as well as just feeling like you've contributed to that project.

Silvia: Thank you for sharing those ,~ uh,~ overall motivations that you have, how you approach things, because I think , architects are so thoughtful, I think we have to be, that I really appreciate just understanding why people operate the way they do, because I think it contributes to , what you do for work, but also like how you live your whole life and are able to, ~you know, You know, ~do such amazing work in general, like all of our guests, I think, do really cool things.

Silvia: And that's another thing I want to highlight on this podcast is just architects are multifaceted and talented and doing really cool things. So back to the question, as you're going through your career journey or the path that you were taking,~ um,~ I'm wondering like how those opportunities presented themselves, either in work or or job switch. ~Um, ~ how did they appear to you or ~like, ~what did, like, how did you react to those things as they came up?

Nate: Yeah. So I would say ~like, ~in some ways it's like, it's [00:21:00] perspective and the attitude that you have going into something.

Nate: And that's ~kind of ~why I mentioned this. The sort of the struggle for me even to get into school to begin with some of the learning challenges that I've struggled with, especially like in high school and going into college as well. Is that that baseline like perspective of this is an opportunity for me.

Nate: I have always found just like a really beneficial. Way in which, what do you personally have control of is you have control of your perspective of whatever the situation that you are confronted with. And so you can be given a situation and you can confront that with ~like, ~Oh, this is a boring job. This is not what I want to be doing.

Nate: This is like total waste of time. These people don't know what they're doing. Or you can approach a job and say, Whoa, this is a really huge opportunity for me to learn a ton. ~Like, ~yes, they might not have it all figured out, [00:22:00] but I can learn so much from every single position and opportunity that I have and that type of perspective really helped.

Nate: in terms of you starting a new role and approaching that in how can I learn as much as possible from this role and situation and the process in which that company operates was really beneficial, even when I interned.

Nate: At an architecture firm, there was, it was not only doing the tasks that I needed to do, but also understanding how the company operated and how do they get clients? How do they operate internally? How are their teams structured? How do they do their documentation and through that inquisitive learning side of things really helped in terms of identifying, okay, they're doing certain things really well and I can learn and capture those [00:23:00] and then when I would go to a new firm, I would see, oh, they're doing these other things really well, but this other firm did.

Nate: Their Revit documentation, 10 times better.

Nate: ~Um, ~yeah, so that's where kind of taking those existing experiences and having them start to build on one another. And you can start to identify what a place is doing well and what they're not. And then start to ~like ~provide solutions for how to fill in the gaps.

Silvia: ~So, um, ~so this question might be a little vague, but I'm wondering if,~ uh,~ there are things you've noticed about like how you mentioned,~ uh,~ how firms do things either at the firm wide level or even just ~like, um, ~project based practices that you can either,~ like,~ share what makes them good practices,~ like,~ successful, like,~ like, like, um, you know, like~ one of my go to Thank Things is just being very in communication.

Silvia: So clear lines of communication and very transparent practices I know are very beneficial across the board. But just like what have you noticed,~ um,~ among different [00:24:00] places that like works well or just like great things you love, even if it's just like a notion page or something like that. Like I love sharing like tips and tricks.

Silvia: Tricks and good practices.

Nate: Yeah, so ~I mean, ~I think the first thing is, The tone can really be set by the leadership of the firm, and that really can trickle down through the entire like culture of how a company operates. So the places that I've worked that I've really enjoyed have, there's that initial tone that is set in terms of how they approach their work.

Nate: And the ones that I typically align more with is more of a people centric approach where they really. Care about people, but also yeah, where they really care about people and,~ uh,~ also just set like a really positive tone. So that's, that's one element is just ~kind of ~setting ~ um,~ that baseline kind of culture having that trickle down to the rest of the firm,[00:25:00] ~ uh,~ in terms of,~ uh,~ other items as well, that firms did really well was.

Nate: Some firms really focused on more like the value that they deliver in a project versus others really thought more in terms of time based and putting in your time and the documentation that you need to do on a project versus, Hey, we're delivering a service to this client. what are we bringing to the table?

Nate: ~So, um, ~yeah, in terms of operations, like some things. Just have to do around those cultural aspects of how they approach their work and how they set the tone. The other were maybe more like tactical items. Like they would have really good Revit documentation and use technologies really well, while other firms are really behind on technology and still using outdated processes.

Silvia: I like that you touched upon the. The softer things. You can be very [00:26:00] efficient, like a firm could be operated very efficiently, but still not be a great place to work. Or you could have like tons of documentation, but it's it's still not hitting home.

Silvia: So it's really like that connection of making things effective. And I like that you touched upon that. It's really personal values, enjoyable side of things that makes businesses or companies run well.

Nate: And it's always, ~I mean, ~with that as well as ~like, ~it's in service of what, like you can do tons of documentation, but if it just sits in a closet, then it's not really serving anyone or providing value to project teams.

Nate: Versus you really have to build a culture around like your processes in order for some of those items to really ~like ~to work and be effective as well. So it's not just the, yeah, we can talk and fine tune the tactical ways of the best way to take meeting notes or the best way to do X, Y and Z, but you also just need that base level of, ~um.~

Nate: A base level [00:27:00] culture where you feel safe in that environment, that it's a positive one. And that one where you feel like everyone's voice can be heard as well. And then with that, you start to empower people to actually ~like ~make the choices and actually ~like ~take the steps to improve the process because you've set that, that baseline,~ um,~ foundation.

Silvia: How does that translate to your current role, , at a team, level,~ like,~ working with different Groups of people who have different priorities and goals and also like focuses and skills like when I work with our engineers they see everything through their own lens and like we ~kind of ~kind of have to like translate to each other to like~ like ~make sure we align but also different skills but also different goals like how do you and are you at the center of all

Nate: of that?

Nate: Yeah, I'm definitely not at the center. ~I mean, ~but,~ um, I mean, ~a short answer to your question is ~like, ~as we know, like,~ like,~ it's all about communication and everything's around communication. But what does that really mean? Like, when we say [00:28:00] communication, is that how you talk? Is that if you can say a sentence really clearly?

Nate: And to me, when it comes to communication again, Going back to that listening aspect, in order to communicate effectively, you also have to listen really well in terms of both what other people are saying, but then also understanding and deciphering the situation clearly and then making the steps to say, Hey, what can I do to address the situation that I'm seeing?

Nate: And so sometimes that can look like. Communication tactics in terms of ~like, ~okay, I'm going to repeat back to you what I've just heard to make sure that I understand correctly. And then it could also just mean in terms of,~ like,~ who you need to get into the room to, to communicate.

Silvia: I really like hearing like the operational side of things ~like, ~because I think our listeners can take this and think about their current situations that they're in whatever path they're on, like just how do you work effectively with people, [00:29:00] and I feel like the way that you're thoughtful about,~ like,~ the intent and how to do it well.

Silvia: ~Like, ~I think is, I, I'm really enjoying hearing. ~like, ~I appreciate your tangents on communication and, but also just ~like, ~I guess it's just working with people in general. ~Right. ~Yeah.

Nate: And that also goes back ~like, ~to like, everything goes back to all your previous experience that you had as well. So like when you're working on a construction site, you're working with other people.

Nate: When you're working on an architecture project, you're working with other people. And then also when you're delivering a digital product, you're working with other people. And with each one of those, like you mentioned, like the goal might shift, but that's why I care so much about how people work together because that ultimately is the, the outcome that then addresses the, the needs better.

Nate: And also like~ like ~helps deliver a better product to whoever is going to use that. And so in terms of [00:30:00] like those goals that you were mentioning of ~like. ~What the outcome needs to be, to be effective, you need that, that baseline team work functioning really well to then,~ uh,~ get that outcome.

Silvia: ~ um, I'm going to kind of like slowly transition to, uh, or like mentioned that you are, uh, an advisor at out of architecture. Um, so maybe do you want to go into like, uh, advice or like, I mean, we kind of already. Did some advice, but do you want like some career path questions, I guess? Yeah, sure. Okay. So, um, ~also welcome Nate as the latest,~ uh,~ out of architecture advisor.

Silvia: ~Uh, ~I'm really excited to see ~architecture ~out of architecture expanding. So just to be able to help others. Along their path and help more people,~ um,~ with adding advisors. ~So, uh, what do you, how or ~what kind of topics ~do you, ~are you really passionate about sharing with,~ uh,~ the listeners ~or, um, future, uh,~ or the out of architecture clients?

Nate: Going back to that, those three initial words, like the helper aspect. So that's really what. One of the primary things I'm really passionate about, like helping individuals, helping teams, and then also helping people through the artifacts that those teams create. So that's what I'm [00:31:00] really excited with.

Nate: I've worked with people, a number of, of people previously to help them on their journey. And so I'm really excited to continue to do that work and really helping people find a position that. Works for them that they feel that they're passionate, that speak to their core strengths as well as their passions and so that they can be more in line with the work that they do every day to the things that they enjoy doing and also providing value to the team as well.

Nate: Contributing, I think. Thinking about ~like, ~what are the core things that everybody wants, like people want to feel appreciated for the work that they do and they want to do really good work. ~Uh, ~and so that to me as well as like, how can we find roles where you can thrive in, that you can be excellent in, as well as ~like ~something that you enjoy doing as well.

Nate: And so that's what I'm really passionate about is really helping find that alignment for people. And then they [00:32:00] can take that from there and ~sort of. ~Accelerate and go above and beyond within that role. So they can be successful. So I think it's not just about ~like, ~Hey, this is what you're doing today.

Nate: This is the next thing that you could do. I really want to make sure that that next position is ~sort of ~like a trampoline, a jumping off point into really expanding the horizons of. The types of projects and work that you're doing today, like jumping into something new as a way to really ~like ~expand those horizons, learn new things, but also ~like ~excel and be successful in that new position.

Silvia: , how can working with an advisor be beneficial,~ um,~ versus, ~you know, like, ~applying to job postings on your own or,~ like,~ talking to your friends,~ like, um, ~what's the advantage of working with an advisor?

Silvia: ~Um, ~because, ~you know, ~I think some people might just be very stuck where they are in their heads, that ~like, ~maybe they're unsure of using an advisor.

Nate: some of the things that I see that are really beneficial is that you can of course go online and look at a bunch of roles, [00:33:00] but one of the things that can be challenging is how do I evaluate those roles, and then how do I.

Nate: Take my narrative and apply it to that role. And one of the things that I did when I was transitioning, and I have used career coaches in the past as well. ~Uh, ~one of the things that I did when I was transitioning out of architecture was really understand the business that I was going into or that, that role, what is the core business that, that,~ um,~ that company is doing and then.

Nate: Understanding how my role ~sort of ~supports those business objectives and then taking my personal experience and then leveraging that to contribute to those, those business goals. I can give a concrete example, but,~ um, ~

Silvia: Please share your concrete example, because I think that's one thing a lot of,~ uh,~ listeners, I think, question is that they have a very traditional background, perhaps,~ like, you know, ~spent maybe 10 [00:34:00] plus years in architecture, and it's ~like, ~it's ~kind of ~daunting to switch to different roles, ~you know, ~like the, the briefs don't align, or it's like, I~ like, ~know so much about buildings, but how do I translate this to other industries?

Silvia: And how do I even get them to,~ like,~ look at my resume?

Nate: ~I mean, ~in the case of when I was making that transition, one of the things that I observed was like for this company, user adoption was really the primary driver for that business to be successful. So how my role fit into that was in terms of how can we get people to use our tools, a pretty simple like proposition and that role, I could already say ~like, ~okay, I'm already No, and understand how architects work today.

Nate: So I can use that in terms of understanding what their friction points would be in adopting a new technology and what their, their blockers of a blocking, a new technology. The other aspect was like what we were talking about before, which was in those architecture [00:35:00] firms, I was already starting to work on the operation side of things.

Nate: In terms of ~like ~getting people to use new tools, because at sometimes I'd go to an architecture firm where their technology was really out of date. And then just like working towards,~ um,~ having people adapt new processes and new technologies to make their workflows more efficient. ~So. ~I had already been working on that in terms of helping architects transition to and adopt a new tool.

Nate: And so that aspect of both, ~you know, ~the things that you're doing today, they can apply to a lot of different roles, but sometimes we don't always know how those apply. So I think one of the primary advantages of working with an advisor is you can really hone in on what am I doing today? And then how are those actually applying to this specific company?

Nate: And then how does that specific role relate to that business objective? And what I can bring [00:36:00] currently to that project to help bring to that role to help move that business objective forward. And that can be a really nice way to ~kind of ~build that, that narrative,~ um,~ and, and ~kind of ~bridge that gap.

Silvia: oh, yeah, It's really helpful to have an outside perspective as well.

Silvia: ~Like, ~it's kind of like, even when you're just like chatting with a friend. Sometimes I, I, I appreciate just The conversation because it helps me think out loud and think through whatever, ~you know, um, ~I'm trying to figure out,~ um,~ so looking at your own,~ uh,~ skills and experiences through someone else's eyes is actually a really good way to see how they could be applied to different roles and,~ um,~ because like when you mentioned,~ um,~ teaching new users at the firm to adopt like new practices, most people probably just I think this happens a lot where architects are like, that's just part of the job.

Silvia: ~Like ~putting together a drawing set is just what my job is, is like being good at that, a skill, maybe not to most architects. [00:37:00] No, like it absolutely is. But ~like, ~it's hard for you to see that because that's like your day to day you're so immersed in it, but all the things that enable you to be able to put together a good drawing set, like project management, coordination.

Silvia: I put On all my resumes because I'm like I had to coordinate like 10 different disciplines. Like, how do you juggle that that is absolutely a skill. ~So, ~yeah, I think it's hard to see that when you're stuck in it, and ~like, ~Like it's like the way so heavily on your shoulders these tasks

Nate: Like you're mentioning as well as like it's not just about the architecture skills like you're building up so many skills in terms of communication and other items that like when you start to extract it from.

Nate: The subject matter expertise, knowledge of ~like ~the dimensions of a brick, but they actually like processes that you're going through, those are like a hundred percent translatable. And so to me, the challenging aspect is we can work through that. Like we can work through translating your existing experience and [00:38:00] how to leverage that to a new position what's challenging and sometimes.

Nate: A little bit more difficult is actually knowing which roles would then you would be like actually like satisfied and be really successful in and identifying those roles and the types of companies that you would want to work with and thrive in. ~So, ~to me, the somewhat of the more challenging aspect is actually on that.

Nate: More of the backend in terms of like really finding that next role. That's going to ~like ~catapult you where you can be really successful. A lot of times people think that, Oh, I'm going to be starting over. I have to do a training or I have to go back to school. Like I know so many people in myself included that did not do a certificate program or do go back to school.

Nate: Sometimes you do need to like strategically work. To do that, to then land that next position, but oftentimes it's more of a matter of [00:39:00] just extracting what you're already doing and applying it to that new role. But again, I think one of the more challenging aspects is really being clear and understanding what are my strengths and the moments of my day to day that I actually do appreciate.

Nate: I think it can be really challenging when you're in the trenches and especially if you're in a toxic situation, all you can think about is I just want to get out and that's really not a healthy place to ~like, ~unfortunately, that's a lot of times where we get to, but ideally, I also want to like, let's not get there.

Nate: Obviously, you can't always avoid that, but make sure that. Yes. Like I just want to get out, but ~like, ~what is that next thing you could go into another situation and it could be less than ideal. So I think working with a career advisor can be really helpful on that. The front end, like we talked about in terms of understanding your current experience and how it can be [00:40:00] leveraged, but then almost even more importantly.

Nate: In terms of like the types of roles that you will thrive in, in the future and make sure that there is alignment with your, your core strengths and your passions and really identifying those companies and roles and making sure that, yeah, you'll be successful in that new position. Yeah,

Silvia: that really reminded me about like how overbearing like the stresses of an architecture job sometimes can be,~ um,~ and then it almost makes you feel helpless sometimes like you, you're not in control.

Silvia: And there are so many parts of the job that you're not in control of sometimes like the deadline or the client pushing back, but ultimately you still are it's like going back to that perspective thing you mentioned. No one can force you to do anything. So you are still making the choices to do all of this.

Silvia: So I, I really like what you said about let's not get there. And I think it's ~like, ~yeah, ~like ~let's do something about this. If it's not working, ~like ~there let's start pivoting and find what [00:41:00] does speak to you or what you are passionate about. ~Um, ~are there any Things that can help people identify because architects can also do many different roles like you could probably find 10 job listings that you could do, but how do you find the one that you actually want to do?

Silvia: And like you said, ~like ~sets you up to where you want to be.

Nate: ~Well, ~that's where a career advisor can be really helpful because it can be challenging to like, identify those things just on your own. And of course, you can do all these things over time and and by putting in the work,

Silvia: ~uh, uh,~ that align with yourself. So yeah, ~I mean, I mean, ~take it however you want, like if it's more strategic or it's more like what resonates with you.

Nate: Yeah. ~I mean, ~for, especially when you're going through a pivot and a career change, you do have to put the time in, in terms of.

Nate: Almost even, you could even think about it on a daily level of ~like, ~it's, you could think of it similar to ~like ~studying for the AREs. Like how do you incorporate it into your daily schedule? [00:42:00] Whether it's like you're having breakfast and you just spend 30 minutes writing something down or you're having lunch and you're writing out some notes.

Nate: So in terms of helping find those next opportunities and the things to look out for, it ~kind of ~goes back to going through those. Exercises of evaluating your strengths and you can do that by both writing out your assumptions of what your strengths are and the things that you like to do, but you can also ask your peers in terms of, hey, what do you.

Nate: What do I seem to ~like, like ~to do and not like to do whenever you see me like happy or not happy or stressed and that's where you can ask your friends and your partner as well as ~like, ~like just getting some feedback in terms from them is like, Hey, when have I been happiest and whenever I have been most stressed out.

Nate: ~So, ~yeah, part of that process is just going through and evaluating doing that self evaluation and then also exploring that self [00:43:00] evaluation with other people. Actually sent out a survey to the people that I worked with to give me feedback on my strengths and weaknesses to understand like what my, in a, what my strengths and weaknesses were and what kind of, and it was more put in the category of ~like ~what comes easy and what takes more effort and you can.

Nate: Lean into the things that come more easy, but then also over time, ~like ~build up the things that also take effort as well. So I actually did go through the process and I had both my working peers and my friends and family fill out this survey of ~like, ~Different categories of ~like, ~are you more insightful or thoughtful or do you work well in like groups or not?

Nate: ~Um, ~there was a series of questions, but that kind of helped set the barometer. I could start to see like trends and then where things were different in ~like ~a personal context versus a work [00:44:00] context.

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Silvia: Any notable,~ um,~ things that you got from that survey that you like were unexpected?

Nate: ~Um.~

Nate: ~Um, ~for this survey, I was really looking at your working styles and the, the ways that you,~ uh,~ the ways that you work. So some of the items were like, are you more competitive or cooperative? Are you more like assertive or laid back? ~Uh, ~some of the other categories were like animated or soft spoken, adventurous or cautious.

Nate: So some of these items start to,~ uh,~ inform how you would work through,~ uh,~ problems and, and the types of,~ um,~ the types of. Work that you do. ~Like ~terms of like going through that survey, I think there were not necessarily like initial surprises. I think one of the things that I was surprised was, was the difference between the people that I work with and family members and that there was some difference in terms of ~like, ~Oh.

Nate: Okay, this is what this was what [00:45:00] was interesting was there were a number of times where through this survey. So I also filled it out in terms of ~like ~working styles and preferences and where I fit and the people that I worked with. would differ from my own self evaluation. And so I thought that was super interesting was like, yeah, I thought I was like a little bit more on the restrained side, but I had a bunch of people say ~like, ~I'm more on like the convincing side of things.

Nate: So yeah, there was some fun little like anecdotal things that came out of that in terms of ~like ~what my self evaluation was versus what my like peers thought.

Silvia: And then did you take the strengths that kind of or the survey might have shown that you had strengths in areas and did that help influence your career steps?

Nate: Yeah, so that that survey in particular that helped more with My actual [00:46:00] like position and working in my position and ~sort of ~knowing, okay, I'm really good at X, Y, and Z, but maybe this takes more time. I'm really good at ~like ~starting projects and being enthusiastic about,~ uh,~ projects and. Also like new and innovative ideas, I get really excited about maybe some of the other things like the day to day, like documentation side of ~like ~a mundane repetitive task is something that takes more effort on myself to do those things.

Nate: So it's not to say like, ~ like, ~I'm not going to do repetitive tasks or repetitive documentation, which was what I was doing a lot in architecture. ~Uh, ~but some really aligning with some, some of those things that, that,~ uh,~ came easier and that in terms of ~like ~finding a nice alignment with like your core strengths, identifying those core strengths,~ um,~ yeah, then that's in that category of ~like ~those items that come easier.

Nate: Maybe that's what you [00:47:00] do for the majority of your day or the majority of your role. If there's things that take effort that are the majority of your role, that can just be really draining. And I think that's where some of the struggle comes in when you're working in an architecture firm is if you're doing things that take a lot of effort, even if you know how to do it, it's like a repetitive task that you have to do over and over again that you already know how to do, that's going to be less inspiring for you.

Nate: So that's where some of the motivation comes in as well as ~like ~to start to look for a new career is if. The things that you're working on day to day do take a lot of effort for you. Maybe it's time to start looking for new opportunities because over time that will start to ~like ~build up and you'll think that there's not another option out there that I have to do this thing.

Nate: But I'm here and tons of other people are here to tell you there are other options. ~Like, ~this is not your only option. ~Um, ~the last thing I would like to say as well as ~like, ~sometimes we do feel pigeonholed [00:48:00] into the role that we have, but you ultimately have. Control and you can gain back control by putting in the time in terms of ~like ~that self evaluation and taking these steps, taking action towards working towards that goal that you may have.

Nate: ~So, ~again, there's a little bit back to that perspective. Of ~like, ~this is an opportunity versus this is the situation. I can't do anything about it. Yes. We all work in society that have these really strong systems that we are unfortunately like subject to, but there is a certain level of which we can ~like ~move to take actions to improve that situation.

Nate: Depending on ~like ~what those circumstances are so or regardless of those circumstances. So sometimes it can be really hard to move past certain circumstances if you are in a certain situation. So I don't want to discount that whatsoever, [00:49:00] because it can be really challenging to break through. And for some people is ~like, ~really, really hard because of.

Nate: A number of factors, but there's always actions and things that you can take in whatever situation that you are, at least to try to improve or find opportunities to then move beyond.

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. And,~ um, ~ as a closing question? Do you have any advice to your younger self?

Nate: Yeah, I think advice to myself would probably be to slow down a little bit. I do have a tendency to be pretty motivated and passionate to really take on a lot of work to do a lot of things to make a really big impact. I,~ like,~ wanted to change the entire world when I,~ like,~ went to college, and that was ~kind of, like, ~my task, and I went to different countries to be able to do that, lived in other places for, ~you know, like, ~two years to be able to do that,~ um,~ but probably didn't need to put,~ like,~ [00:50:00] so much pressure on myself to get to those things immediately, like,~ like,~ really being patient with Giving some time and space for that to happen.

Nate: Like it did not have to happen overnight. ~Um, ~so some people might take the stance of ~like, ~they don't want that patience because they want to ~like ~do it today. But,~ uh,~ for me personally, definitely,~ um,~ taking a little bit of that time to slow down. ~Um, ~yeah, and embrace every step of the process. Like it's not a linear, even though time is like somewhat linear.

Nate: Every one of those experiences is, is super special. And so taking that time to really appreciate where you're at today is just a beautiful thing. And so there's, ~you know, ~we, we all go through multiple jobs. I was mopping grocery stores,~ uh,~ to like then a couple of years later, like working in an architecture firm,~ uh,~ to like now working in a, in a tech company.

Nate: So we take on all these different roles. And each step of the way you [00:51:00] can embrace it and it's, ~you know, ~you're not losing anything, you're just ~sort of ~gaining more and more experience, whatever role you decide to step into and take next.

Silvia: Thank you for that really nice reminder. It's really nice to hear, especially like everything can be so fast paced and urgent.

Silvia: So yeah, it's a great reminder. Thank you. And thanks for this chat. ,

Nate: Yeah, well,

Nate: I hope it was helpful and helpful for the people that are listening again, like I'm, I'm really here to help. That's something that I strive to do every day, just in my job is help other people as well as personally with the people that I work with as well.

Silvia: I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Nate as much as I did. Now let's hear from rachel from our o a community make sure to connect with rachel on linkedin where you can let her know that you found her through the tangents podcast.

Rachel: Hi, I'm Rachel Gresham. I graduated from Virginia Tech architecture school in 2013. I've been practicing architecture for about 10 years [00:52:00] and went back recently to get my master's of business at Belmont university.

Rachel: I've practiced multifamily architecture and K through 12 architecture in Virginia. And I've also practiced government, civic. K through 12 and healthcare architecture in Tennessee for the last seven years before I transitioned to working for AIA National.

Silvia: I think

Rachel: something can feel right for a long time.

Rachel: And one day it might just start not feeling right. And having the awareness to recognize that there might now be friction present in something that previously felt really good. That's okay. And it's. It's your life guidance telling you something. And as soon as you start to notice that friction, or you know that disillusionment that we often refer to in this community about the architecture industry, as soon as you notice it, recognize it, [00:53:00] absorb it.

Rachel: Try not to resent it. I think that was really hard for me is that I put in all of this work in architecture school and then I realized that I signed up for something that I wasn't okay with and I struggled with the resentment for a long time. But there's so much value that comes out of an architecture education, working in architecture, the skills that you learn and the things that you do every day are really extraordinary.

Rachel: And we often take that for granted. When you introduce yourself as an architect to someone who doesn't know what we do, they're always so amazed and that never gets old. And there's a reason for that. And. We often take for granted the things that we do every day, just because we do them every day. And those skills that you have, whether, you know, you realize that getting them was really hard and the inputs don't match the outputs anymore, try not to resent your experience, but try to recognize the value in the hard things that you've been able to do.

Rachel: And that can take [00:54:00] you a really long way, either in a minor career transition like I did, or just a major one.

Silvia: That's such a good point. And it really resonates with me when you said the resentment. I feel like in my past, I would always be like, why is it like this way? It shouldn't be like, logically, it doesn't make sense.

Silvia: Like, we should be doing better. But then I think I started gravitating towards places that were trying to make a change. And I think I was getting frustrated, because it didn't make sense. And no one was doing anything about it.

Rachel: The resentment piece, some people see that as something is wrong outside of me, I have to change it, and then they just end up creating more friction, and In 2018, 2019, when I was deciding to go down my own journey, it was very much, I can't control some of these industry factors that are creating this environment.

Rachel: I had been at enough firms to realize that it wasn't a firm thing, that it was an industry thing. And me, myself, and I cannot single handedly change the entire industry to relieve my resentment. What [00:55:00] I can control is how I respond to it and what I do with that information. And so. That ultimately started me down the path of putting the chess pieces in line to be somewhere else in a certain period of time.

Rachel: Yeah,

Silvia: and I want to thank you for choosing the AIA to make it happen. I'm really excited to check in with you again in a few months or a year and see where everything's at.

Rachel: Yeah, I'm excited to be at the AIA too. I know a lot of people I've had the reaction of, Oh, you're headed to the belly of the beast.

Rachel: And I'm like, it's a great place to be. They're doing excellent work here. And it's extremely awesome to be a part of a, of an organization and a part of a team where everyone is so passionate about changing the industry and in the ways that we can. And just, I'm faced with passion from all of my team members every day of people who really care about architects and.

Rachel: their success. And so that's been really nice and really refreshing to be a part of.