Ep 1: Understanding What You’re All About with TestFit and Women Architects Collective's Joann Lui
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Joann: [00:00:00]

Intro
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Joann: I always tell architects that they spend their entire life. It's focusing on buildings and projects, but the most important project in their life should be themselves. So you can use this literally the same process in your project, but do it for yourself.

Silvia: Welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture. Out of architecture is a career resource network helping designers apply their incredible talents in untraditional ways. We're highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we've met along the way. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the wide variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.

Season 2 Intro
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Silvia: Welcome back to season two of tangents. This is your host, Silvia Lee. And I'm excited to share that this season we're highlighting our out of architecture community members. At the end of each episode, you'll hear a [00:01:00] little bit from a community member about where they are in their career journey. So make sure you listen to the end.

Our guest today is Joann Lui, content marketing manager at test fit and the founder of the woman's architecture collective. Here, Joanne share about how personal branding can be used. To share, grow and reflect. On yourself throughout your career journey.

Three Words: Introvert, Relatable, Ambitious
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Silvia: how would you describe yourself in three words?

Joann: The three words I would describe myself, I think are I. Introvert, which is very true my entire life.

Relatable, which is part of the brand I'm trying to build, is be relatable to my audience and community. And another one, ambitious. I'm always trying to do new things and push myself to step out of my comfort zone.

Silvia: Yeah, very cool. And some background information. I know [00:02:00] Joanne from working with her in the past. I owe it to you and your Woman's Architecture collective Facebook group, because I found you online doing talk for the woman's woman in architecture in New York City. I didn't attend the info session, but you sounded really interesting. So I looked you up, found your Facebook group, joined the Facebook group, and then eventually saw you posting for a. The marketing manager for Monograph as a part-time position, and that really spun my whole journey out of architecture. So thank you for all of the things you created and which I'm sure we'll get into more in the conversation.

Joann: Yeah. I'm glad that you find this. Like you took this career path and I have seen you grow so much in a journey, and I'm just like so happy to be here too, to talk to you about it.

Background in Architecture
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Silvia: So why don't you share for our listeners, what is your background in architecture? Where are you now?

Joann: Today I have my license in AR as an architect. I [00:03:00] have worked in architecture as. Like a traditional project architect type of role for about 10 years. My last firm that I was at was Gansler in New York. I was there for about six years doing a lot of office repositioning work, a lot of interior public spaces or even exterior public spaces type of renovation in the city.

And after that, I. After the six years at Gensler, I really wanted to try something different and I know that in, in the back of my head, I always feel I probably won't stay in a traditional architectural role forever cuz I've always done so many different things outside as either just my hobbies or my side hustle.

I took a leap into the tech startup world and [00:04:00] joined Monograph, which is where we met to be their content marketer and building out their content marketing strategy. And then about, I think a few months ago, I joined Test Fit, which is where I am right now as a content marketing manager.

Side Hustles: Blogging, Jewelery Making
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Silvia: Can you share a little bit more about your side hustles or your, the things that you would do outside of work? Because the pivot usually feels like you use the skills you have as an architect, but it is also joined by all of the experiences and skills you develop in your side. Hobbies, because I think that helps flesh out. Architects are able to do when you are trying to pivot. So how did those two go hand in hand for you?

Joann: Yeah, I think side hustle is a great way to make that transition for me. I started blogging. At my very first job outside of school, cuz [00:05:00] I was just so bored at that job that I was like, I needed to do something creative and fun. So I started blogging. I started a blog, it was called just an Intern back then.

Just sharing my own career journey and my own learnings as a very young intern in architecture. At the same time, I would go and take graphic design classes and branding classes in the city cuz I just needed some creative outlet for myself. After that, I started designing some brands just for my friends and family and I really fell in love with that, like the whole creative side of marketing and branding.

I was really interested in it. So from there, I have started a few different side hustles. Honestly, just for fun for myself, I don't know if you know this, but a few years ago I was [00:06:00] selling jewelry and then I also started a woman art collective, and I started personal brand coaching during the pandemic to help architects in the community to build a brand online.

And all of that combined have really, I have learned so much about. Like marketing, growing my own business, branding, all that skills that I have learned just from growing my own stuff, growing my own brand, trying to sell juries and learning how marketing work and how sales work and that. Helped led me to this career path that I'm in now, which is doing marketing, but for the tech startup world, they're still focusing architecturally in the a e C industry.

And I think it's a great combination of everything that I have learned, like I can use my knowledge as an [00:07:00] architect. I can use my skill that I have learned in marketing and branding and writing, and I've always had an interest in tech as well. When I was an architect, I would lead like the BIM team and teach people how to use software. So this all combined to one single role that I feel like it's perfect for me right now.

<>Turning Side Hustles into Businesses
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Silvia: That's so great to hear. I guess it's turning interest into businesses or was it, first, did you start with an idea like, I love doing this, and then, oh, could this be a business or it was more business focused and is what is a good business idea and what are my skills?

Joann: I think I started with just love doing this and like I really like writing. Writing is a part of, I used to journal every single day when I was a kid and have stacks and stacks of books that I have written as a journal. It's like [00:08:00] blogging was part of what I loved. Just writing in general. So I just started writing and as I was writing for my blog, I started learning how to write for a blog, how to grow a blog, how to do SEO and all that stuff.

And then the same thing goes with branding. I've always loved branding, typography, colors, like prints. I really like that. So I started just learning about it and. As you grow something that you love, I think usually people start seeing it and then people start coming to you and hiring you for certain things and that I wasn't really intentionally growing some of it into a business, but I think it has naturally, like if someone like I will start posting about some graphic design that I did and. One of my friends messaged me and said, Hey, can you do a brand for me? So it just started [00:09:00] to grow from there.

Sharing with Others Your Accomplishments
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Silvia: And I, I would assume that sharing what you're doing is an important part of that transition or that jumped into a more of a, creating your own business. And you mentioned earlier that you're introvert, so how do you.

How do you feel comfortable sharing about all these new things that you're doing?

You know that sometimes it's, I don't know. For me actually like it. I try, for some reason, I don't feel comfortable putting myself out there all the time. Yeah. And I know it's practice, but can you share a little bit more about your experience?

Joann: I don't even feel comfortable sharing, but putting myself out there all the time, like I go through periods where I just don't wanna touch social media and it's like burning me out and I just don't wanna put my face out there. But I think it's a couple of things. It's. Finding the format that makes you feel comfortable.

And I've tried different things. I would [00:10:00] try making graphics on Instagram. I tried writing on LinkedIn, which, which I find that really speaks to me recently. So I've been writing a lot on LinkedIn. I think finding the format that you're comfortable with, that you are great at is makes, it makes it much easier to share more effortlessly.

The other thing is, I like to see this as just documenting my own journey in tech. There's saying that, um, a lot of companies were building public speak, meaning they would share how they're building their companies in the public eye and from that they build a community that's like waiting for them to. By their software, let's say. So I just see that's what I'm doing. I'm just documenting what I'm learning, either for myself, but also just for the community to see that [00:11:00] there are different things you could do. You don't have to just be an architect if you don't wanna be, but seeing it more as a. Documentation than just promoting myself and trying to get something from people. I think that's how I am able to put myself out there more as an introvert.

Silvia: Yeah, that's a great piece of advice. I really like taking photos, but part of that reason is because I have that memory saved as a photograph.

Mm-hmm. I feel like when you go on trips or like things happen, it's very easy to forget, but the photograph helps you keep that memory a lot. So the documentation of it, it makes it all worth it. And so if I post more photos on Instagram, then it's really easy for me to find those instead of scrolling through my entire photo library to find those special moments.

So I can definitely relate to that and that's very encouraging.

Joann: Yeah. And I think if you are talking about something that you truly love and you're passionate about it [00:12:00] be, it just becomes easier. Cuz usually when you love something, you wanna share that passion with other people.

Silvia: Yeah, and I think you mentioned before how on interviews when you're speaking about things that you're, you love or you love doing that.

It's really, I think that's really easy for other people to see that excitement and joy that you have when if you're trying to talk or interview for a role, but you're using experiences that might be side hustles. I think that energy is really attractive. I would say.

Joann: Thank you. I take that as a compliment.

Recognition at Gensler
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Silvia: When you were back at Gensler, did you try to incorporate all any of these side puzzles or these passions of yours into your day-to-day?

Joann: So at Gensler I would. Do a lot of, I was, what is that called? I was a process design leader, was one of the world I was in, and [00:13:00] part of that is teaching my studio, which was about, I would say, 20 or 30 people on different technologies, but at the same time, it wasn't just technology was about using technology to optimize our processes, to make everyone work more efficiently.

So I think that's just part of me that I love technology and software and that was part of my role there as a counselor. I would also, a CER Italy, but I would sell my jewelry at the, they have, they would have Christmas markets, sell my jewelry there. There. And I would always just, Share what I was doing.

If I'm doing special event with the woman RS Collective, I'll share that with the women in, in my studio or even in the whole company. I would, if I got interviewed, featured on a podcast or in an [00:14:00] article, I would send that and share that with people in my company cuz I just find that whatever you are doing outside of.

Your regular role is a bonus that it helps with the recognition when you're in a firm, especially a firm as big as counselor, it was really easy to, no one will probably remember you out of like thousands of people. So sharing those things that you do on the side, I think really help people remember you.

Silvia: Yeah, that's really cool. I ask because I feel like. Sometimes, depending on where you're at in your office, like which office you're in, sometimes it's hard to share, like your outside things feels like you're two different people. And then other times I find that the things you do on top of your project work is where you can see your interest is in.

And I feel like the things you're interested in, pop up in your office [00:15:00] person like. Who you are in the office. Sometimes you take your interest and join certain committees and take on certain events or things like that because of those, your interests. So it's kind of easy to see like what kind of things you would you could pursue as a side hustle or an alternative career, cuz there are probably like already manifesting in your life.

Building Communities and bringing people together
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Joann: That's true. And I think. I've always loved building communities, like for the re, for the women r ps collective. Since I started that, I've, I didn't really build any community in my regular job, but I was always just trying to, I. Bring people together. I was trying to, at least for my team, to help everyone be collaborative and respectful to each other and that kind of stuff. So I think it definitely, whatever you are interested in on this side will somehow manifest itself in your regular role.

Women's Architecture Collective
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Silvia: And can you share about [00:16:00] how the woman's architecture collective has grown over the years? It's a really nice resource to have because of the honest conversations that exist in that community. But can you share like what, how it started and where it is now?

Joann: Yeah. I started it back in 2018 and honestly at that time, I think I finished my a r e exam and I got my license and I was just like, I have so much time in my hand now what do I do with it? I just, I've, I'm the person that always needed something to do, right?

I came up with this idea of building a community for women in architecture and design. There are interior designers in there, there are engineers in there that are not just architects. And that started really just organically, people inviting their friends in their colleagues, and they have slowly grown to, now we have about 4,000. 200 members, I think. [00:17:00] And it's really just a great community, an online platform for people to ask questions. Because in architecture, most firms are actually really small firms, so a lot of people, they can't find a mentor. They feel like they might not have, uh, a mentor in their firm or even in their location. That they can talk to. So they would just ask questions in the community and people answer them really honestly, and they always give great feedback. I've also recently heard from a lot of members that they have find jobs in the community. They have, and some firm owners are hiring people in the community.

So I think it's just a great resource for anyone who is. They might feel like they don't know where to ask a question about their career, and it's just a great place to do that.

Silvia: Yeah, I think that's really [00:18:00] helpful for, I imagine any person in their career journey, but I. I feel, I do feel that it's lacking in architecture, that you can have ask honest questions in the workplace.

Maybe it's because in any field you don't wanna look like you don't have the answers or that you don't know something, cuz maybe it, it shows like your lack of ability. Maybe that's, I guess that's what imposter syndrome is related to, but, I feel like if it's really important to have that community, whether it's a woman's focused group or out of architecture, also created a Slack community to just find people on, like a support network where you can ask those questions that you need the information, but you might not ha know where to ask them.

Cuz I, I think that's really empowering sh being able to share that information.

Joann: Yeah, for sure.

Trusting Your Gut and Transitioning
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Silvia: Is it easy for you to make the transition away from architecture? I know marketing you were interested in and it was aligned with your interests, [00:19:00] but what kind of thoughts were you, did you have in that stage of your career?

Joann: Yeah, so I would say the transition was, it happened, uh, Organically with, I wasn't really looking for something intentionally. I just knew that I was at a time where in my career I wanted to try something new and interesting because I've been at. Counselor for six years. And I was doing the same type of project, the same type of work with the same type of clients and the same team and the same people for six years.

And I was just like, I need to do something interesting. But I wasn't really intentionally looking as, I wasn't like so depressed or whatever at my job that I needed something new. But I basically find the architect community. On Slack and I [00:20:00] joined it and I was, oh this is interesting. There's actually a bunch of architects that are in a tech role and I thought that was so interesting cuz I was always so interested in tech and software and I joined to community.

I just basically posted an introduction telling people who I was and mentioning that I love marketing and branding and this is what my interest. And from there I got connected with George, who we all know from Monograph. And I started talking to him and we got on a call. And from there I started working with Monograph in a part-time basis.

Like how you started to Sylvia and doing their content strategy. A few months later they told me they have a full-time opening and they asked me if I wanna join and then so I. Said Yes, and I joined them. So the actual [00:21:00] process to me was very organic and natural was just networking with people. And I met George and.

He gave me a job, but the, I think the actual internal thoughts that you were talking about, like was more difficult for me because I have a personal brand in architecture and it was very hard for me to see myself not as an architect and break from that. And part of me also felt really guilty because I was building a community for women in architecture and I was like, I feel like I'm betraying them to leave the profession.

And I felt like I was part of the representation of women in architecture and I feel like I was killing that. And I was like hurting not just my brand, but hurting the community that I was building. There was a lot of thoughts going on in my head, but. I think I really just [00:22:00] started trusting my instinct and I know my gut instinct told me I, I had to make this jump.

It was the right thing for me to do, but there were definitely a lot of guilts that come with it and a lot those self-doubts that came with it.

Can't let the identity go
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Silvia: I can absolutely relate. I still have my a i a credential, like I renewed it for this year. I think I am still holding onto my identity as an architect. Like I occasionally freelance on architectural projects, but I think part of that is because I want to hold onto that identity.

Like I'm not ready to just let it go. So when I'm in a group of friends and there's other architects in the group, I actually don't know if I would refer to myself as an architect now because that's not my full-time job. So I, I do have this mix where, I don't think I see myself as an architect, like a traditional one for sure, because that's not my nine to five, but I still can't let it go.

Joann: [00:23:00] Yeah, I can't let it, I don't think I will ever leave it. It go like I will still, I think Ill still forever have my license and I will still, like you said, I just renewed my air and I think. Part of it is also because I have the community and I do work with architects on personal brand coaching. And I feel like that helps me like still stay in their world and be able to talk to them.

Uh, but part of me is, like he says, that identity of being an architect, and I've had it for 10 years, right? And even including architecture schools 15 years and it's really hard to let go.

Silvia: Yeah, for sure. And actually I, I do still enjoy it. Like on certain, when I help customers at Layer with their projects, I'm like, oh, it feels by relation or by proxy.

Like I am working on architectural projects. But I think I love the creative process, like I'm sure you. You might feel similarly, it's not about the projects [00:24:00] necessarily, it's all the things surrounding the profession that make it hard to be in. I don't wanna go into the office five days a week. I don't want deadline after deadline, like a week after week.

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. What's your take on that?

Joann: Definitely, like I got, I got laid off. I don't know if, I don't even remember when, but I got laid off from my last tech job at Monograph and that's how I came into test it. And when I did get laid off, I got a lot of people asking me, would you come back to architecture?

I got people against asked me. I would You come back, like work for us. And my first question was always, would you let me work remotely full time? And the answer was always no. So it was that like it was really hard for me to work in an office. First of all, I was commuting like three hours a day to the city.

Also, as an introvert, it took up so much of my energy to be with. In [00:25:00] a huge office with hundreds of people in the office every day. And it was just exhausting to me. And I find that when I work from home, I just have so much more energy and I'm so much more productive. So I don't think as part, that's a huge reason why I don't think I would.

Go back to a regular architecture role in the near future. That's because I really just enjoy the remote work. I enjoy the flexibility, like you were saying, and all the burnouts and stress and everything that we know in architecture. It's definitely much better now than I am in a different role, and I'm able to work from home and I have.

I haven't burned out in a very long time since I've made a transition, so it's definitely better for myself.

Silvia: Yeah, definitely. I would say that architecture, like traditionally the pos, [00:26:00] the work is so rigid that if you're li if you're sick or if something happens in your life, you, I feel like you can't actually in your head space like balance.

Your life needs and priorities with your architectural projects and the company's priorities that like, it's a lot to put on your shoulders. So I, I don't feel that pressure after leaving architecture, actually everything, everybody is so accom, so understanding and also like, I feel like the worth. Work ethic we have from being architects is really appreciated.

Like it's not always so like intense outside of that and it's, but helps do doing other jobs.

Joann: Yeah, I think sometimes I have to catch myself like, oh, I, I shouldn't send this message at 10:00 PM at night because I still, I love to work late cuz I'm at Night Owl, but I try not to bother my team or anyone in the company when it's late.

And I think that's just habit that we [00:27:00] have built from being an architect.

Personal Branding
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Silvia: What does personal branding mean to you? Because I think from knowing you and your brand, I have a very good understanding of why it's important to share about yourself and establish who you, your, like persona or identity. But how do, how would you describe it in your own words and why is that your niche?

Joann: Yeah. A branding to me is a very, I would say a very intimate personal development process. You know, a lot of people think of personal branding and they think about self-promotion. They think about being a YouTube influencer and having thousands of subscribers. But to me, I really just use the pro, the process and the tool of personal branding to help myself clarify who I am.

Clarify what I'm all about and how I wanna share the [00:28:00] values that I bring to the world. And I think it, when you think about personal branding that way, It's really just a tool for you to understand what you are all about. And because without that self-awareness, you are not really able to put yourself out there and share what you're doing and then get the, get the promotion or get the job that you want. So it's how I see personal branding

Silvia: and actually it kind of reminds me from applying to jobs like over the years. Mm-hmm. You. If you don't apply for a job and five years have passed at your company, then you have a five year old resume. But if you apply to jobs or pursued opportunities in that time, your resume is up to date.

I feel like every time you have to update your resume, it's like reflecting and then presenting yourself again to other people, which is like similar exploration in like, how do I want to convey like what I do and who I am to someone? [00:29:00] And I do find that to be very helpful, like from my own experience.

Joann: I think first of all, you should probably update your resume every year, even if you're not looking for a job. But I usually like to do it on my LinkedIn profile just to keep track of what I have done, and that's why I maintain your process is so helpful because you can look back and see all the things that you have done in your own like.

Documentation. And I think that's part of it. And another part is if you are looking for a job, and this might sound. Weird for me to say about myself, but I haven't, like for the past two jobs that I've gotten, I haven't sent out a resume. It was, and especially I think if you're looking to make a career switch like outside of architecture, I.

It was all about networking. It was all about knowing who I was meeting and [00:30:00] leveraging my personal brand to show that I have the skills I need to get this job. So I wasn't, it wasn't necessary for me to update my resume, per se, but, but, and it was just like, Here's my personal brand, like they see me, right?

People in the industry, in the AEs industry, not just architects, but in the tech startup world, they see me. Doing speaking engagement, getting on podcast interviews. They see me building a woman collective. They know who I am before I even go approach them and just talk to them and network with them. So I think that's really helpful to have that brand, that's that authority that people would say to, to leverage it and meet the people that you need to meet to get into the position that you wanna get into.

Silvia: I'm curious. I know this is all on your LinkedIn and LinkedIn is a great platform to, you should share everything you're doing [00:31:00] on your LinkedIn so people are, can see that. Do you share this in your personal life or like in conversations with friends and family, do you have the same approach where you're very open and like about what's going on and the things you're creating? Because I find it even harder to share like all these new ideas with my friends because I just don't like talking about that kind of stuff a lot.

Balancing your energy
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Joann: That's an interesting question. So I, to my family, I'm a very quiet. Introvert. It was really funny because when I started my YouTube channel, I posted the first video and after I posted a video that weekend, we have a family barbecue with my cousins and I.

They were all teasing me. I've never heard you talk so much in like in a certain period of time. And they were like, you better be talking a lot now because in the whole video I was talking like nonstop for 10 [00:32:00] minutes. And that's like how I am portrayed in front of my families. I don't really like to talk and I find that people that I still keep a good relationship with are people that.

I don't have to talk a lot with them. I can just, like one of my best friend, I don't talk to him for a year and we can just message each other and talk whenever we need to, but, and I could just, he used to be my roommate so I could just sit on the couch next to him. Not talk to each other for forever.

And I think that's how my personal relationships are. I'm, if I need to like spend a lot of energy to communicate with someone, then it just becomes really exhausting to me because I'm an introvert. But I do share what I do with my boyfriend a lot because he's also a very creative person and he. [00:33:00] And we have businesses together, so we share a lot of ideas and strategies and we talk through things in our business.

But also if I have like an issue I have at work or about my own community or my own brand, I will share with him and ask for advice, that kind of thing. So, I think it depends on the person that I am with, but I would say most of my family is are very surprised by what I'm doing with my personal friend.

Silvia: Sometimes I question if you should be like the same person in all different groups, but it's probably not something that's sustainable. You're an introvert and you are very talkative, like in some of your areas or situations.

Joann: Yeah, and I have to force myself to be talkative like. Probably after this podcast, I'm just gonna go take a nap and not talk to anyone for a very long time.

I just, it takes, because being an introvert doesn't mean you don't [00:34:00] talk. It means when you're socializing with someone, it takes up so much your energy that you need time to recoup. So because I have this goal of building my personal brand, I try to. Take control of my energy and be like, okay, tti, I, I have a podcast interview.

That means I can't do anything else. And like when we're doing the women art festival for the virtual conference, I know I have to spend two days non-stop talking and spending time and socializing. So before that and after, like a whole week after that, I. Basically wouldn't do any interviews or even like really talk with friends or family.

It's just about how you control your energy, I think.

Getting Things done
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Silvia: Yeah, that's an important reminder and thank you for joining us on this podcast too. How do you juggle all of your side hustles? Like I know there's a matcha tea store, [00:35:00] personal brand coach. Are there other side hustles? But then also how do you juggle everything on top of a full-time job on top of the rest of your life?

Joann: I honestly, Maybe it's the architect in me. I'm a workaholic. I love to work, but doing these things to me doesn't feel like work, which I think is what keeps me going. So I usually, I have a full-time job. As a marketer at Test Fit, so I usually work on all these side hustles at nights or on the weekend, but I find one way to really help prioritize the things and draw out what you need to do.

For example, like right now I'm planning for the Mental health Summit in architecture and to plan for that conference, I know I need to get it done by a certain time. I know I. Maybe for the next two months I won't take on any new [00:36:00] projects or new clients, or I won't. Like I, maybe I wanna launch a course later, but I won't do it in that two months.

So I need to prioritize what project I need to finish first based on like when they need to be finished. And I think that really helps because I used to jump around with different projects every day I would do something new and something different, cuz I. That's just who I am. I'm a multi-passionate person and it helped.

It like really fuels my energy when I do different things, but being able to just focus and say, okay, these two months, or even just one month, or even just one week, like this week, I need to do this to finish and to put it out there is really, I think helps. It really helps with just managing the time that you need.

Silvia: With all the things that are going on. I feel like being ar previous architects that if you have a [00:37:00] deadline, you will hit, you'll do everything right you can to make that deadline. So it kind, that's what it reminds me of when you say that.

Joann: Yeah. Which is why I think I like doing conferences and events because I have to pick a date and like, okay, this is a date and I have to get it done by this date.

So it, it helps, like you said, having a deadline really helps.

Stay Ready for Opportunity
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Silvia: And do you, are there ways that you stay ready for new opportunities? I ask that because I feel like who knows who you will talk to or who you will meet, and I feel like sometimes. People will see an opportunity happen, see a post about something interesting, but then not take action right away or not jump on it. And from knowing you, I would say that you are very able to take action or act on things like quickly. So do you see that in yourself?

Joann: It's funny you say that because one of the biggest. Problems I have [00:38:00] is I overanalyze and overthink everything, and it might look like, I think from the outside that I. Take action really fast, but probably in the back of my head, I have thought about it for months before I actually take that action. Like for example, for the women art festival, the idea of that conference, I have had it for two years and I couldn't do it because I just thought to myself like, who am I to put together conference?

No one is gonna come and all this. All these self-doubts and thoughts that I had in my head and it was preventing me from taking action. And I think it's that fear that might keep people from like taking action. Like you said, when an opportunity comes or even when an idea came in your head. And to me, just because of who I am, it actually, I know it doesn't look like it. Outside, [00:39:00] but it actually takes me a very long time and I don't, and I think sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not good because it takes a long time for me to process. So usually I can do things really well and execute it very well. And that's, I think that's also the professionals in of as architects.

But the bad thing about it is that. And you might miss an opportunity or someone else might be taking it over and it, you're not able to act on it quick enough that maybe people lose interest in what you wanna do. So I think it's good and bad for that.

Silvia: Like when you finally do take that step, is it just like I got, I'm gonna stop listening to all these thoughts in my head and just do it. What helps you, even though you've been thinking about it for a while, how do you get to that? Take action point.

Joann: Few things that I would do is because I know I am an [00:40:00] overthinker and over analyzer and I'm very bad with making a final decision. So usually when I'm in that stage that I'm overanalyzing anything and I can't make a decision, I would put it on my calendar, let's say.

Two weeks from now or a month from now on this day, I'll make a decision. So I'm not forcing myself in the moment of all these crazy thoughts going in my head to make a decision based on all of just emotions, right? Because I like to make decisions based on data and based on concrete. Reasoning. So I would put on a date and say, okay, in a month I'll make a decision about this.

So in that month, I would look up things, right? I'll look up, like for example, if I wanna put together a conference, I'll look up how do I put together a conference? What are the amount of work that I need to do? [00:41:00] How much time is it gonna require? I will gather all the information I need for me to make an informed decision.

That sounds like I'm like marketing a software, but make an informed decision based on data and, and that really helps I think, cuz I, I would have basically, okay, this is a process I need to take. I know how much work I need to do. I know how much time is gonna take. So on this day, I'm able to make the decision to do it or not.

Another things that really help, I think, when I'm going through all this self-doubts and thoughts in my head is I save a folder of just nice things that people say about me, and it is really helpful for me to just go and look and say, okay, people are actually interested in this, right? If I. They're saying good things about the Woman R Collective and they love the community.

They wanna be able to connect with more people. So maybe the conference is a good idea. [00:42:00] Like I just need that val validation, and if I'm really doubting it, I will go talk to people, right? I will message people in the community that I know that I personally am very friends with, and I would ask them, do you think this is a good idea?

I think just validation from. Other people would help you make that decision? I think two different ways. I usually go about it

before, probably from you, about making that

Silvia: folder. Yeah. And collecting things. I haven't done it, but I think, no, like after hearing it again, I really want to,

Joann: yeah, just have a Foho folder and call it something like, Nice things people say about you.

And then I just basically, I would take screenshots from like dms that people send me on Instagram or even for my work. If someone say something nice or that I accomplish something, I'll take a screenshot and just save it. It does two things, [00:43:00] right? It gives you more self-confidence because like you are doing great job based on what you're putting out there.

The second thing, it gives you, again, that documentation of record of what you have accomplished. So in the future, If you need to ask for a promotion, you have a collection of, yeah, this is what my clients say about me, this is what my colleagues have said about me. And you can use that as proof and data for whatever you need to do.

Silvia: That was actually one of my favorite things about architecture, I would say, is that after you work so hard and there's so many iterations of an idea, and then from the end you can see the decisions that like framed this, like all the work and ideas and thoughts and the process in it. I loved seeing the documentation of a process going back and seeing like, An old sketch or an old something, like really this whole conversation that we've been having is really like how we ourselves are also part of that [00:44:00] process and we should document it.

Joann: Yeah, that's a good point. It's like I always tell architects that they spend their entire life. It's focusing on buildings and projects, but the most important project in their life should be themselves. So you can use this literally the same process in your project, but do it for yourself.

Silvia: And some of our favorite closing questions, how would you define an architect?

Joann: This is such a funny question to me right now because I just posted this on LinkedIn today that. I was in a class and I was introducing myself. I said I was an architect with, it was a bunch of tech people, so they asked me what kind of architect are you, like a software architect or like a tech solutions architect?

And I just said, I'm an actual architect. And it's, it is just a very funny question to, to answer at this point, but I [00:45:00] think an architect is, People that are able to basically combine creativity with logical thoughts, and I think that's a really important skill that we have as a, as architect, but also is something that.

It's actually really unique. Like I never really know, like some people just are not able to do that. Some people are just not logical and creative, right? Most creative are just very cr, very creative, probably chaotic, but architects can be organized and logical, but still be creative. And I think that's a very unique personality and skill that we have that we should celebrate that. And I think communicate that more.

Silvia: Yeah. I love both of your answers. Did the other tech people appreciate your answer as well?

Joann: I [00:46:00] don't think they got what I was like trying to say. I think they're just like, okay, so you like you're not trying to do buildings. I don't think they got the sub-test of one.

Silvia: Yeah. Yeah. They don't understand our pain of what anyone calling themselves an architect.

Joann: I don't think they understand that.

Silvia: And then our last question, what does success look like for you?

Joann: It's a deep question. I used to think success was like when I was an architect, and I think that's, you know, part of where our ego comes in is I used to think it was about like working in a big name firm working in New York City.

That was like my dream or. Working in a skyscraper. I dunno, that was like what success looked like to me back then. But after so many years of doing what I really wanted to do, it was my dream job. Now I feel like success to me [00:47:00] is being able to, to control of my own time and being, have the flexibility to use the time that I have to do what I want.

And that that comes with, you do need to make money to make that happen. You do need to have a certain job to make that happen, but I think that's more important to me now is being able to spend time with my family if I want to go travel, if I want to take a break if I want to, but also be like, work on what I wanna work on.

Silvia: Yeah, definitely. I think many people, I imagine success will change as their priorities shift. And I think that's like the natural progression of life, which probably makes the reflecting process and like cuz like your personal brand can change as you go through life too. So that's constant reflection and also saying what you want [00:48:00] to be about is important, right?

Joann: Yeah, I think just generally, Being able to be myself, like you said. Say what I want, do what I want is just generally what success looks like to me.

Silvia: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Joanne. Now I want to share with you. Our highlight of christy federally. Who's part of the oh. A team. Someone that Joanna and I have collaborated on many projects with and no stranger to communities.

Cristy:

Cristy Highlight
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Cristy: Hey, my name is Christie and I live in Greenville, South Carolina. And currently I'm having a remote job, which I'm loving. It was not something I planned. I step out of architecture and

my journey is it has been. Something, like I said, something that I didn't plan, but also put yourself out there. It's okay to not have the answers and just try to communicate. Just try to be friendly with anyone and everyone you meet.

[00:49:00] You don't know who you're gonna run into. And a big part of that is just, uh, networking, you know, in communities. Like I said, myself, I'm like a big time introvert, but it doesn't stop me from chatting with someone online and that's something that has helped me. You have no idea how much it has helped me.

I just have like a genuine interest in getting to know people, their background stories, and also what bring us together.

Because you know, you can be someone who's just getting started like early stage in their careers and or you can be an executive level, but you can also find that middle ground where you can be like, oh, I also do that. I have fun. You know, like I play golf, I do whatever it is. You can always find something that you shared, like a mutual interest.

And creating those connections is what I love about community building.