Ep4: Transforming Passion Into Career Growth with OnePlan's Chi Bhatia
===

Chi: [00:00:00]

Quote
---

Chi: I think I was in a very lucky place that the sports studio at HKS was very unique. You know, We did everything from way finding to urban design, the whole service and we're really trying to evolve what it meant to be an architect. We use the word invention, obviously I'm biased, but the sports studio in HKS is very unique. It allowed me to flex things that I was interested in, which transparently, I just don't think many corporate firms would've.

Intro
---

Silvia: Welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture.

Out of Architecture is a career consulting firm helping designers apply their incredible talents in untraditional ways. We're highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we've met along the way. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the wide variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.

[00:01:00] All right, let's get started with Tangents by Out of Architecture. So Chi, one way I like to start these podcasts is to ask you three words that you would use to define yourself and, preface it however you like, or, say as little or as much as you like with these words.

Chi: Yeah. Great. First of all, Silvia, thanks for having me on the show. Three words. So you had prepped me earlier, so I subconsciously brainstormed a little bit, but it's still pretty hard even with a minute or so notice. Um, I think one that's come up recently talking to coworkers is curious.

So I'm gonna go with curious as one. The other one that's related to our design world, I think is systematic. So I think on a systems thinking basis, I think that's something that I've always used. And [00:02:00] then the third one is I think calm. I think I'm a pretty calm person and I think when I need to be. And I think that's a personal and professional thing. So yeah, those three kind of come to mind. I guess.

Silvia: I can start to see the calm come out. But I'm really interested in seeing how that goes throughout your background and your career path. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got started in architecture and maybe reference it back to the three words that you used to describe yourself?

Chi: Sure. Um, I'll start on a personal note. Cause I think that's related to how I picked architecture in university. I'm originally from India and I've been lucky to grow up in South Asia and Southeast Asia in international schools. I went to boarding school for high school in Singapore to a large international school for my last, say, four years of high school and.

Before that I lived in Katmandu, Nepal, which is a very different environment. So I think at the age of 15, going from, two story high buildings in, in a third world [00:03:00] country of Katmandu in Nepal to skyscrapers and the future of engineering in Singapore, I think that was a direct correlation to the interest in, I think the built environment and first and foremost bridges.

So I always, that was kind of urban curiosity that came from that move at that time of my life. I then studied the IB, the International Baccalaureate in high school, and you basically have to make a decision on which three subjects you wanna study. Higher and lower. I picked physics, mathematics and economics English, French geography on, on the standard level at it's called.

So I think, you get forced at that age to pick your high school classes, which affect your university interests and and it was a big school so you had that subconscious pressure. And so I was always juggling between civil engineering and economics. Those are my two interests. Say first year of IB, which is say 11th grade before you actually have to apply to university around the world. And so it was a happy medium between civil engineering and economics of finding a degree or a course that I had. Curiosity in to go back to your word

I did a lot of [00:04:00] photography and art when I was younger, but I didn't really take art in high school. So I wasn't, I couldn't really draw. I definitely came from more of the science, engineering, creative side of the architecture spectrum. As there's usually like artistic version. And so that was the way I ended up applying or selecting architecture as a major in university.

University Affects You
---

Silvia: And then when you had to go and create a career for yourself after you graduated, what did that look like? What decisions were you making to decide?

Chi: So I think, the, the phase I gave you from like a 15 to 18 was that process. I think you've now just asked me what happened from 18 plus five years.

And I think, those five years you change a lot, You learn uh, university affects you. So again, I think I answered that question by my environment. I went to USC, the University of Southern California in Los Angeles for a five year architecture degree. And I think already USC is more in the middle, let's say, compared to more of a artistic architectural program or a technical one.

So I think that also is shaping how you think I was also very interested [00:05:00] in a minor, so I ended up minoring in the business school in Marshall at USC in a minor in management consulting. But in terms of the architectural interests over those five years, it was the kind of rise of parametric design.

And so I think the curiosity to, to code and design in, in, in parameters and efficiency was something I lent towards. So that was one area of interest over the five years combined with kind of urban growth as well. I think urban design was a curiosity in those five years, but I think you go through different interests in those five years as well.

And I'm thinking back at that now, but those are the two types of architecture or types of specialty within architecture, I really was more drawn to was the parametric side, computational design, a as it's called as well as urban and I lent into more of the computational side in the last two years of university.

Professional Development
---

Silvia: And from your training, what did you take away with you to your professional career? Any strategies or like just ways of thinking that you really developed [00:06:00] as a student that you honed in on as a professional?

Chi: Yeah, so I think cuz I'd been lucky to live in many different cities and countries growing up, I took advantage of two different study abroad programs at USC.

So I did three months in Shanghai and six months in Barcelona. And again that wasn't direct interest in what I was doing then it was to take advantage of, being in different parts of the world and learning that side as well. So I think that's one answer to your question is, taking advantage of the environment I was in and the other externalities that it would give me.

That was one area. The other was, I go back to context like um, USC is a school that's in LA that has all the stereotypes of what LA has, right? It has the kind of entertainment, sporting, large infrastructure LA has was and continues to be a melting pot of a lot of experimental architecture.

And I think SCI Arc, the school was growing there. Morphosis was a very prominent Gehry's there. So there's a bit more expression, it doesn't have that historical [00:07:00] groundedness that say a lot of other US cities have. And I think that has a direct correlation on the type of design that's taught. The type of professors we met the case studies, we reviewed the building, so it was still like a, I think it was a growing architectural environment also, which then created more of a, I'd say a diverse multidisciplinary type of design that I was taught, and we were taught in general, right? Because, we had, we just had more of a unique environment to learn from being there. So I think that was a another factor.

What kind of architecture do you like? Viewed through software proficiency
---

Chi: One thing that I ended up, just to go back to the question as well, in terms of, what affected what I learnt into what I took to practice was trying to fuse another big passion of mine with design, and I think when you're in junior or senior year and you've done maybe one summer internship at a firm, small or large, big question comes up at that age is like, what kind of architecture do you like?

So do you wanna do a skyscraper, do you wanna do [00:08:00] residential? Do you wanna do mixed use? Do you wanna do airports or stadiums? And I think that is often. One of the first chances you have as an architect to lean into what interests you and at the same time, what's directly correlated to that, which is I think a bit harsh but true is your software proficiency. Or what software you like or at what part in the design process you're interested in or what you're good at. Cause that's how you get perceived as in your resume and portfolio.

So if I look at those two things together I was always interested in large mega structures. So that's large buildings that in my mind always had a mix of all those typologies I've described. So if you look at, airport stadiums, transport hubs, you're doing urban. You're looking at large people movers. So the user groups are very varied. You're looking at a very unique mix of hospitality, mixed use in one building. You're looking at very complex roof and facade systems, and I was always very, I was [00:09:00] very structurally pure, let's say from a design interest and I think the complex facade and roof systems were a big part of large buildings.

So the way I approached it was, I really like big buildings because I can do all these different things. Or, so I thought as a 24 year old, and then I'm a massive sports fan. I had interned at Gensler in Los Angeles over the summer between my fourth and fifth year. And again, just going back to the first question, what I, what directly I took was when I filled out the form of what studio do you want to join?

I'm a big sports fan. It was kind of like, well, you know, if I'm staring at plans every day as an intern, might as well be a stadium or an airport. So that was the initial. Weaving of personal interests or an ecosystem, an industry that I already had knowledge in because I'm a fan.

uh, Fused with kind of what type of architecture and at that time a lot of computational design that I was interested in, I thought, Hey, I'm good at this. How do I try to fuse? How do I play to my best? If that makes sense.

Influence of software proficiency on your work and BIM vs Grasshopper/Maya
---

Silvia: Yeah. I love how you connected all of that together. Can you speak a little more about the proficiency in [00:10:00] programs and that kind of like influences

Chi: Yeah.

Silvia: Where you end up and I feel like that's just a great way of looking at it, but. We don't really, as students maybe think about it that way.

Chi: Yeah, you don't think of it. No.

Silvia: You just, you learn what you have to learn and assume you know enough when you get a job, so can you speak about how that influenced you?

Chi: Sure. And I think it's important. I'll transparently add another parameter, which is the immigration circle. So if the Venn diagram is like software interest and immigration, I'll come to immigration in a second, but you just reminded me of that. That was another strategic thing I had to think about. But on the software side first

Yeah, I agree. I think it's harsh. Because you don't know how good you are until you're in the world outside of academia, right? Because you don't have a relative sense of people who've been working three years more than you, or two years, et cetera.

I also think the time in when I graduated or when I was learning, there was this big pressure from industry to academia on teach these kids Revit. Revit's the future. BIM was kind of being deployed in most mid-market to large corporate firms [00:11:00] already. And there was this big pressure of that, combined with being in a, top 10 architecture school. In the US you're also being taught high pedigree design, which is not Revit and not BIM.

And that's more I don't wanna use the word computational, more unique shapes and an expression of more fluid forms. I don't need to name any architects with an s those forms are derived by using Maya, Grasshopper. Two primary ones. And then I think if you wanna work in those studios, you gotta know those softwares proficiently, especially if you're outta school because you know you're gonna be in the model shop where you're iterating design after design.

So, you know, You're not coming outta school with technical knowledge of waterproofing a detail in design development, which is in Revit. So I think the industry always had this chicken or egg game where they never really figured it out. And I think it changes in the US, UK, Europe, Australia, Canada, and India as well.

I think the software proficiency has a direct path of the architectural styles of what's considered design over. [00:12:00] Heck, I just need a job after I graduate. So yes, I will, join you X-firm and work on a mixed use project because, maybe some people aren't that passionate, what exactly you wanna do, and that's absolutely fine.

But I think there was this duality of pressure internally what you perceived as was like a top tier firm. And if you weren't good enough, that was actually based on your software. I think. It doesn't matter how good you could sketch, doesn't matter how good you could present your resume or portfolio. There was this very quick first impression on the type of architecture you were creating in junior year or in, in your thesis that would be perceived as, okay, they have design chops, because I just have another person in Grasshopper or Maya giving me iterations.

Does that kind of help give the, academic to professional cause now obviously I've seen both and I've hired people in the past, but yeah, that's the kind of the way I looked at it. And you're right, we didn't have knowledge of that as students, I don't think in the same way

Silvia: That was great. I think it's nice to hear people talk about This in a way that it's like kind of unfair to professionals and the industry. [00:13:00] So I like this take of it that I haven't heard in the people talk about in the past.

How does immigration play into this?
---

Silvia: Um, It sounded like you also wanted to draw a line to immigration.

Chi: Yeah, I think that's an important one. So I was an international student at USC and the US as a result, and essentially after you graduated, you had a year without needing a visa uh, to work um, for a firm and essentially that also affected your ability to take summer internships where you had to, It wasn't that complex. It was a bit of admin to, to get paid essentially as part of your degree. So like for example, I couldn't have an internship as an Uber driver or working in a bank or in a marketing agency, it had to be linked to what my degree of study was, which was architecture.

So knowing this, junior year, sophomore year, and having friends in the grade above and you have a network, you're mentally prepared to say I have to fight a bit harder. I have to have a better resume in portfolio than someone who might have the exact same skills because I am putting pressure on a firm [00:14:00] to spend X thousand dollars, put my name in a hat. So it's still a lottery, right?

So I don't know how familiar you are with the traditional work permit route, but a firm spends X thousand dollars to put your name in a hat. If you have an undergrad degree, it's roughly 30% chance. If you have a master's degree, it's roughly 50, 60% chance for a three year work permit.

Doesn't matter if you work for Goldman Sachs, a Google, a startup, doesn't matter what country you're from. It's very random. So essentially, When I look at the other side, it's a big cost and it's a big risk of hiring someone even for year and, it's on the border of equal employment opportunity jargon. That's on a lot of resumes. I challenge all firms to, when it comes down to it, it's hard. I've been on the other side now, so I know the complexity, but it's just that awkward aspect.

So if I wind that back to your question earlier of. What were you interested in? What did you wanna study or work in, or, where would you like to work after you graduated? Even if I had a 4.0 gpa, amazing design chops great recommendations. [00:15:00] It still came down to some firms saying, what, we don't sponsor, because that's just the reality of it. It wasn't a, on a personal thing, it's just the reality of the aspect.

So I think just to, to share empathy with people who might be listening who are, have been in this position or are in it currently. My advice is it is harder and you have to work harder. You basically have to prove that your, yourself as a candidate is better. You're better than someone who doesn't need sponsorship. And it's that black and white. It's very harsh, but it's the reality. And so that builds you a different plan of, Okay, maybe I'll take six months after I graduate and travel.

I didn't have that luxury, right? I can't not use that one year after I graduate if I wanted work experience in the US. If I did, it's not a, it's not a necessity. You can go to college in America and leave them when you graduate, right? There's a whole world out there. I'm not saying you should at all, but if you've been there, you've learned, you might try to get licensed, you might try to do your hours right after you've worked in [00:16:00] that system, that culture, it makes sense to stay, but I think that was another factor. Well, I have to go to a larger firm who can sponsor if I wanna stay, et cetera, et cetera.

So just something to flag that I think also isn't talked about enough publicly on both sides. .

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. I had a lot of international friends in school. I'm sure everyone had international students in their program and you really don't know what it's like.

I've seen my friends stress about it all the time and then so many applications that they say they do not like they, every application will probably reference it or not. And I think architecture as an industry does not really lend itself to being very kind to that because of way architects are paid and the way that our fees are with projects.

Thank you for adding the advice to students that may find themselves in that situation.

Chi: Sure.

Having a Plan
---

Silvia: When you told yourself, you know that you have to be the pick above all these other students that might have more flexibility in their plans, What mindset did that put in you?

Like I'm assuming you had to be very strategic. Were there any moves that you thought were very helpful for [00:17:00] you?

Chi: Yeah, I think there's still nature and nurture. You have a certain set of skills that you have and, doesn't matter sometimes how hard you wanna work.

You're not gonna, that's just life, whether you're playing tennis or learning how to use Rhino. That's, so I think I was already pretty motivated to do well. I ended up minoring. I study abroad twice. I was in a fraternity. I had a good time as well. I was pretty balanced. But there were times towards, junior year when you're entering the next two years, you're like, Okay, shit. And now I gotta really plan, I gotta plan ahead. I gotta pick the firms that can sponsor. Cause my plan was like, I might as well stay a year here minimum.

Cause that made sense. So I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it anyway. So I think it was never a burden, I guess if that's part of where I think I, it never affected me mentally to a level where, It was scary, let's say, but it does linger on your shoulders, let's say. It does become a factor where if I'm going out Friday night and Saturday, then you know, I'm actually gonna sit up, sit on Sunday and do some work because, I gotta plan.

So you [00:18:00] did have to do more. I think that was a reality. But you also had to be a bit strategic. And I think that's where I was, that's where I think I, I did well because I, you had to, you have to gamify. You gotta plan out what you wanna do. You can't just wait till okay spring semester, your senior year and then start applying.

That's just not gonna happen because you have a clock. So I think I was proactive. I think that's the word, but I don't think I really changed my lifestyle or it didn't affect me that much. I think it was more just being proactive and being aware of it.

Silvia: That's great to hear then that you still enjoyed your education.

Chi: Oh, I had a great. had a great time.

LA & Sports
---

Silvia: Yeah. I want to also talk about where you're currently working at and I think you were able to take your experiences in larger firms and now transform.

Yeah. Yeah, please.

Chi: Maybe I'll just give like a one sentence on what I ended up doing after I graduated in architecture, I think, cause I don't think I mentioned that. So yeah, I ended up my thesis was on the Olympics in Los Angeles. This was before it was public that LA was bidding for the third Olympics in 2024, for 20 24, [00:19:00] and I ended up interviewing, the lead team at AECOM who was doing it privately, confidentially and they shared it with me. So that got me into sports and infrastructure with stadiums, arenas, et cetera. And because I had interned at Ginsler in the sports studio, I'd already seen what that was like.

So that was like the plan, let's say. So my thesis was affected by my internship. Internship affected thesis. Thesis affected where I applied. I even got a scholarship like a travel fellowship USC had, and I went to Brazil during the football World Cup in 2014 to go study the Olympics. So like that was, I had a plan there and, fortunately I got a job at HKS.

HKS is a, is one of the many acronyms as I like to joke. It's a Dallas based firm not as big as the Genslers of the world. Much smaller. The LA Studio was another sports studio and I was very lucky that they obviously saw my portfolio, saw my background, and it was roughly the same month that SoFi Stadium, which is the stadium that hosted the Super Bowl this year was being I guess the site selection had begun [00:20:00] and HKS was working privately as the sole architect for LA's first NFL Stadium. So I think that was just luck as well, right? That I come in and obviously done research on the infrastructure in LA and I managed to work on what ended up being the largest and most expensive sports district on the planet for three years straight. So that was a lot of luck, but that obviously was an amazing experience. So just to round up the story, I worked in the sports studio at HKS for almost eight years, a year and a half in Los Angeles and the rest in, in London in our office here with a lot of work with our Dallas headquarters and LA Sports studio. My work in sports in a more architectural aspect was on the computational design side, so helping with the facade roof systems, with the structural engineers and the facade engineers from concepts schematic to design development.

And these stadiums are massive. That took a year and a half. That's where I learned everything architecturally. When I moved to London, the role here was more hybrid, Let's [00:21:00] say we didn't have as big of a pre presence here as a architectural studio with a capital A let's say, and the type of sport and the culture was different in this part of the world.

Sports in London
---

Chi: So you don't have $1 billion NFL stadiums in France or football paid for by private ownership. It doesn't work like that. So our approach here was actually doing more consulting. So think of it as advisory meets design. So we would help real estate owners of venues or the teams themselves figure out how to improve their asset, work on fan experience, and kind of mold together design ideas architecturally with how it affected their business operationally.

Career after architecture
---

Chi: So that was the kind of second phase of my career after pure architecture. Still design. And then the last phase was that we ended up building an internal venture arm. We were doing so much work with sports and entertainment. And entertainment arenas from small, medium, large, and so much knowledge.

At the time when technology in these venues was, I think, far [00:22:00] superior than the bricks and mortar or the architecture. So here I'm talking audio, video, lighting and systems control. And that's when immersive experiences were also skyrocketing, pre Covid, and the rise of eSports and gaming was also happening.

So me and a colleague helped lead like technology focus of our group. That was what tools and technology we wanna use as thinkers, designers, doers, strategists. So looking at unreal engine, computational tools, you name it. But also in the market, how can we place ourselves as not just architects, but inventors and thinkers and owners of our IP as we make these immersive environments.

So that was my last pivot. Architecture with a capital A, but working in an architecture firm with a venture arm of saying, Hey, look, how do we enter the real estate world as a thinker, owner, developer, doer, and then hire hks. So work with HKS as the architect as well in one holistic scenario. So that phase three transition is where I ended up now.

So yeah, that was the kind of [00:23:00] pivot and then covid happened. So I think when Covid affects a lot of how companies wanna affect their growth or people leave. And so I think it was a good point to, for a change. So yeah I moved into thinking about, okay, how do I take the skills I have? What am I interested in?

Time for a Pivot
---

Chi: And I think that's when I reached out to, through a contact, I spoke to the team at Ooa as well which was well timed. It was in the time when I was looking at basically, do I take my job function, which was, I was doing design strategy. Do I do it in a different industry? I go do it in a design consultancy. Do I do it in a tech firm or do I take my industry knowledge, which is sports entertainment and I go have a different job.

So that was the kind of the two forks I looked at the time of talking to the team at out of Architecture as well as a few other friends, mentors in the space. I ended up joining a startup that's focused on event planning and digital twins specifically in the environment I know, which is sports and events and stadiums and venues.

So yeah, I lead product strategy and growth. [00:24:00] It's a Post Series A British startup that has a 2D product that essentially takes Google Maps as a baseline canvas. So it's a B2B SAS product on your web browser. And think of it as like taking AutoCAD Google Maps, PowerPoint, and Dropbox into one simple user friendly tool to map and plan any events. An event can be someone's wedding or it could be the Paris Olympics, which is our biggest client. So currently the Paris Olympics are using our 2D product for all 36 venues of all the overlays, logistics, data, and just spatial knowledge and understanding.

The 3D product is the digital twin vertical and that's taking architectural files of venues. So BIM assets into Unreal Engine, which is an open source video game. And we have our technology allows us to host that on the cloud. So it's web streamed real time rendered environments of venues, arenas for B2B use [00:25:00] cases.

So it's not for the fans, it's not the metaverse. If you're head of venue operations. Madison Square Garden, for example, How do you use this asset that your architect has on their servers? But you and your team can never touch because you don't know how to use BIM 360 or BIM file. So it's detangling the complexity of architectural assets in 2D and 3D and giving it to the end user in a more easy to use video game if I would've really simplify it. But it's still early days. But yes, that is my new home.

Natural Career Evolution
---

Silvia: That is all so cool. Do you love like, being in this tech space rather than the capital A architecture type of environment?

Chi: Yeah, so I think, I don't think I could have liked it unless I'd done what I'd done already. So I think I love architecture. I love the architecture industry, most of the time. I love that I studied architecture. I'm always gonna be passionate about. But I think there is this, I'm very comfortable saying I don't need to design a building. I'm helping my parents with their house in India [00:26:00] right now. And that's probably more interesting right now than any the largest stadium in LA that I worked on as, one of 50 people who touched it.

So I think it, it really depends, but I think it's, again, it's going back to the first point I made on, like you asked me my question, between the age of 15 and 18, it was X between 18 and 25, it was Y, So I think you just go through these different phases as you learn and think, and your brain evolves and your interests change.

So I think I'm very happy with what I'm doing now in this space, but I couldn't have done this if I didn't have the knowledge bank and the experiences that got me here anyway. So I think it was more natural of a transition than a, something that I searched for transparently. But yeah, I think it's like more of an evolution, maybe that's the word.

Looking for a Change in Pace
---

Silvia: Was there anything in particular that you were looking for when you wanted to transition or when you were at that fork in the road?

Chi: I think there was, there's a really simple, dumb version. Then there's like the more complex philosophical one that you spend hours thinking about in the shower, on walks, et cetera, right?

Like the simple dumb one is I was working on [00:27:00] the largest projects in the world. Stadiums, airports, they're big, they're complex. The ownership of funds is even more complex. Their approval is complex. And so you as a designer thinker can only play a small role in that success in terms of getting it started and approved.

And so I think after I'd worked on one, I was very privileged along with some other coworkers who our first job outta school was the biggest stadium on the planet. We were like sitting there thinking, Oh, this is every job. We had some colleagues who hadn't had a built stadium arena for 10 years, 12 years.

So I think we were very lucky because we came in and the first project we did got built. And so I think that's just the reality of the industry. And I think real estate in general just takes long. I think there's nothing wrong with that, but it's like a, it's a different level of intrinsic satisfaction on time.

So I think because I'd done the longest first . I guess I got to a point, this is like my simple dumb reaction, which is you [00:28:00] know what? I can't touch these projects or these ideas the same way because I'm only sitting here in the value chain of how it's perceived and that, and I'm not making decisions that truly affect the project's outcome in the same way that I thought I did as you grow a senior as well.

So that was my first reaction is I need to try something different where it's quicker.

And the more philosophical kind of time based decision, not the quick simple one was that I was, I've always been more curious about many other things than just the built environment. And so I think I've always been curious like, can I take what I know and build some, build technology from it in a space that I know well?

And I think that's also a, that's building out a new library, or if I say it's a toolkit, if I have a toolkit or a tool belt around me, I'm adding another tool to my belt. Because I think I was also, I was always interested in building things, whether they're companies, buildings, apps. I think that was always more interesting to me than the actual outcome of the thing. Going back to my, [00:29:00] what was my second word? Systematic. I wrote it down Systematic. So yeah, I think it was, Yeah, let's go try this because it's gonna teach me a lot and round me out as a thinker, I

Silvia: What is your current role now and what does that look like? Some of the things that you do day to day?

Chi: Sure.

Silvia: And I also heard you mention that, do you hire people as well? You were speaking that like you are on one, one side of that before and now you're on the other side.

Sports Studio was an Unique Place
---

Chi: Yeah. So to answer your second question first, I had spent eight years in an architecture firm. So yeah. I had run projects, run teams, dealt with clients, hired people.

So I'd done it more in that role in the traditional architectural space, but I'd also helped hire and think about what other interdisciplinary roles do we want in our firm as we built this hybrid design consulting data focused group, bit like Skunkwork. So I think, yeah, that, that was my previous job within an architecture firm, and I think I was in a very lucky place that the sports studio at HKS was very unique.

You know, We did everything from way finding to urban [00:30:00] design, the whole service and we're really trying to evolve what it meant to be an architect. We use the word invention, so I have a lot of good colleagues, friends and obviously I'm biased, but the sports studio in HKS is very unique.

It allowed me to flex things that I was interested in, which transparently, I just don't think many corporate firms would've, Not just me, many other colleagues too who were interested in architecture and X. And I think a factor of that was that the sports entertainment industry is unique as well. I don't think you'll have the same multi-dimensional thinking of staff and talent you would if you were designing a skyscraper as an example, because we work so closely with the brand and the knowledge base of the industry, which is sports, and how sports teams think for their fans and consumers, I think is like the real, like the pencil sharpest point of like user-centric design.

These, the people you're working with have more focus on the fan experience than your customer. Again, compared to an airport or a hotel, maybe hospitality is the closest, right? Cause the guest experience is [00:31:00] also really mapped out and figured out, but not many other typology of buildings, you're spending this much time obsessed about the end user.

So, Yeah, just wanna answer your first question on that. We are beginning to hire now, and I do have a, one or two people in my so and so team in my current role, but as a startup. Now, to answer your question, my role is that we are, I joined as roughly employee number 20 ish. And then now we're roughly 40.

But the size is more based on our Paris Olympic team because it's a dedicated team of 15, 20 people. We are ideally gonna be raising some money end of this year, our series B, and so we're gonna go from startup to scale up, which basically means it's a very different environment. But yes, the role currently is, I'd say, cross-functional.

Start Up Life
---

Chi: So because I come from industry, a lot of startups will hire people who come from industry, right? Cause then you have knowledge connects, et cetera. So I'm one of those hires. I'm a vp, which we are three or four VPs under the C-suite, which is four of them. So I'd say eight or nine of us help our management of the company.

And I think that's still learning for me, is how you build a [00:32:00] team to build a platform instead of servicing a client. So that's, I think, a different chain. My role is the closest with our CEO because it's strategy and growth. And so strategy is defined as product strategy. We build products, we build tools that users can utilize and we're trying to build things that are convenient, that use cases make sense.

And so my biggest focus is, All the things I know about architectural files and architectural knowledge of venues and stadiums, that's one big piece that I help translate on a technology level. On a more intangible level, I've understood the operating models of these venues. I've understood how venues think and use floor plans.

So I think on the more commercial level, it's helping our entire team think about, Hey, how does this product apply for venue management? How can we actually use our tools to help? NFL teams used it versus Premier League football teams, cuz the culture's a bit different. Do we talk to the commercial guy, the [00:33:00] operations guy or gal?

What is the best route to market? So it's a real left brain, right brain hybrid role to support the CEO and the rest of the C-suite in taking our product into new territories, which is more of the growth role. So for example, in a very simple way the product's focus was event planning.

So the way events are planned, even like a marathon, Silvia, or the Olympics, it's very different to how venues use it on a daily, weekly basis on venue management. So just as one example, that's an area that I'm helping lead or try to figure out, what is the best way to place this product into this world.

So it's very cross-functional, but I think by the end of this year, as we raise our next round and grow the team, it'll become more defined. But I've also learned a lot with friends on. We've worked for B2B SAS businesses, a lot of research online on, what exactly does growth mean? And, as a strategic thinker, how can I help basically other teams do their job better?

Because I'm me and another colleague. We [00:34:00] spent the most time across sales, marketing, customer success, product and development. Those are, for example, our six verticals of the business.

Silvia: Very cool. And you can see how your background really influenced how you're able to do your role now. Yeah, because you have like your hands in every part of it. The technology, the architecture, like understanding the user and then also the master plan of it all. That's amazing.

Chi: So that's been again, a nice. Nice, convenient background. That I, the way I found the company and the discussion of the CEO who were great and yeah. So it's been lucky as well.

Yeah.

Silvia: You mentioned environment a lot throughout this conversation. I'm curious, did you guide that or were you this kind of like chicken and egg? And I'm sure it's a little bit of both, that like you were influenced by your environment, but did you also seek out environments that you had an idea would benefit you or give you something you were looking for?

Cause you mentioned LA a lot and just how it was a Yeah. [00:35:00] Source of inspiration.

Chi: I definitely think so. I think let's say 18 plus I could control more of, Right. Um, yeah, so when I had decisions on universities in America and the UK for architecture LA was definitely something that I pushed with the decision that I made with my parents, obviously.

The reason was that USC had very good engineering, film and business schools, and so if I didn't like architecture, I knew I had. Another good top 10, top 15 schools in the country that I could transfer into. The second reason was that USC had the highest percentage of international students out of any US college the two or three years I was there.

And the third one was LA is was, is still probably the most diverse ethnical, ethnic and cultural city in the us. I mean that from diverse American, Armenian, American, Korean, American, you name it, down to just international students as well. And so that was an important [00:36:00] factor in my decision collectively with my parents.

To be in an environment that I also felt comfortable, I could learn a lot and feel more at home. And the last one, very simply, cuz weather makes you happy is the weather. I think that's something that people forget about when you have to, go somewhere new and live in new life. But yeah, I completely agree.

LA taught me a lot. I wasn't the biggest fan when I was 18 when I first got there. It's very big. It's overwhelming. I didn't have a car then. I couldn't drive. I could drive, but I didn't have a car. Cuz, everything's campus based. But I always use the analogy that LA is a bit like a video game where you have the map and as you explore the map opens.

I think that's always an analogy cuz it's so big and overwhelming and you can't really understand it unless you've been there long enough. But every year it grew on me and it's one of my favorite cities. I have a lot of friends there. I, my old colleagues and boss used to be there. I used to go very often. Yeah, I live there again one day. Let's see. .

Silvia: Yeah. It sounds like you're very much an international person, so I'm sure you'll spend more time

there in the future.

Chi: Yeah. The irony is, at the last six [00:37:00] years being in London and building a home here it's the opposite. Now. Now I wanna stay in one place cuz I've been around a lot.

Describing an Architect
---

Silvia: Yeah. Gotcha. uh, how would you describe an architect in your own words now, from your very diverse experience of how that can be.

Chi: This is a dangerous question. You can go so many different ways in a fun way. Okay. How do I describe an architect with all the knowledge I have now? That's the question. Not I'll say a few sentences. So one is I think I'm gonna add. Design industry person along with this point. So an architect, anyone who studied a type of design, maybe a more tangible design. So I'm gonna say industrial design as well. I love visual designers as well, but I think it's a different thing.

So I think in general, they're amazing, interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary thinkers. And I think it's a very under, that's like one statement. The second statement is a very underrated profession publicly. So I think those two things go hand in hand, right? Because you get taught tangible and tangible skills because you could actually do so much [00:38:00] and have that arsenal of, I go back to my tool belt analogy just from a three year course or four year or five year course.

I think it's a very underrated. As a systematic thinker, as a problem solver. So those are my two main reactions. The other one I think is in a, in on a more like future looking standpoint is that I think the industry's changing and I think there's more respect to the profession over time as well.

So I think my kind of optimism is when I say, what do I consider an architect? I actually think it's a thinker. It's a real problem solver of society. Physically, digitally, virtually. I'm loving the positive reinforcement around Metaverse architect, even if I don't really believe in the metaverse transparently, or the hype around it is just a really nice example of suddenly for these virtual worlds, the world is.

So thankful that the world has architects who designs the physical worlds . So I think it's an ironic point I'm making, but it's just one another moment that I [00:39:00] think hopefully there's more awareness across industry that there's a lot of there's a lot of value that could be deployed by what it means to be an architect.

Silvia: Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. Thank you so much for your time and all of your responses to these questions. I really enjoyed just hearing and getting to know more about you.

Chi: Oh, thank you Sylvia. It was a pleasure.

Outro
---

Erin: Hey everyone. It's Erin from out of Architecture. If you find these stories inspiring and are looking for guidance, clarity, or just need someone to talk to about where you are in your career, please know that we offer free 30 minute consultations to talk about what may be next for you. If you're interested, head to out of architecture.com/scheduling to book some time with us.

Jake: Hey everyone. It's Jake from Out of Architecture. We love hearing your stories, but we know there's more out there that we've still yet to experience. If you or someone you know would be a good fit for the podcast and has a story about taking their architecture skills beyond the bounds of traditional practice, we'd love to hear it.

[00:40:00] Send us an email at tangents@outofarchitecture.com.

Silvia: Thanks for listening to our podcast, new episodes every two weeks. See you then