Episode 2: Design a Life you Love with Helen Lummis from Monograph
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Helen: [00:00:00]

Intro
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Helen: I think my advice for everyone is to not forget what you're good at and to feel loud and proud about knowing what you are good at and to take that somewhere else. You need people outside of architecture, especially if you're pivoting to tell you those things, because we are not taught to sell ourselves.

Silvia: Welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture.

Out of Architecture is a career consulting firm helping designers apply their incredible talents in untraditional ways. We're highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we've met along the way. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the wide variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.

Our guest today is Helen Lummis, Senior Customer Success Manager at Monograph, and also one of the amazing career consultants at Out of Architecture.

Hear Helen share how she pivoted her skills and experiences as an architect to the tech world creating a more balanced life for [00:01:00] herself.

3 Words: Honest, Friendly, A Thinker
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Silvia: Hi, Helen. Thanks for joining us today. To get started. I want to ask, what three words would you use to describe yourself?

Helen: Great question. Yeah, I'd say the first one is Honest. I really pride myself on being honest. And that's as a friend, like having tough conversations as a family member.

And also in my work, like I always wanna share what I truly think and feel. Based on, hopefully some data points figuring out what it is or, just other things I've seen in life. So I think honest is one of them, I would say, just say friendly is another I think part of that's coming from the south and then part of that's coming from my mom.

I'm not true southern, I'm Texan, but I think there's something to be said about the fact that you can learn something from anyone. And to me that's being friendly is being open to conversations with anyone and everyone under the sun and being able to find a common ground with them. Something I really I think is so important.

And something I try to do as well as putting [00:02:00] people at ease. That's part of what I also think is friendliness. So honest, friendly, and then I would say, I don't wanna say not quite thoughtful, but I would say. Like a thinker. I think I'm, I would say I'm a thinker. I like to read a lot. I like to spend a lot of time daydreaming. I'm a big day dreamer imagining scenarios and things like that. But I really like to look at things from many different angles before I speak out about something. And I think that empowers me when I have the background or I feel like I've looked at a problem in all these different ways to then be outspoken and share my point of view. So I would. Yeah, a thinker.

From Art to Architecture to Tech
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Silvia: Those are great words. And they actually relate to lot of ways that architects are described as problem solvers or creative or trying to make better change in the world. And then just to give some background and maybe you can relate these back to the words where they're relevant, but how did you get started in and out of architecture?

Helen: Yeah. So I actually am one of those weird people in architecture who didn't [00:03:00] grow up wanting to be an architect. I loved art. That was really my thing. I think so many women maybe that's not totally fair these days to say, but I was not very good at math. I was actually really bad at math.

So even though it was creative, there's that thing when you're younger of she's creative, she loves art. She's, Blah, blah, blah, but actually she's bad at math. So she can't be an architect. I found that to be not true when I got into school, but in my younger years, that was definitely um, it never came up.

I never thought about being an architect. And then when I finished college with the degree in art history, I went and worked for real estate developer in the UK. And I worked in their design department and I really fell in love with design and the built environment and being in those spaces and how you can make these like experiences happen.

And so then I went back to architecture school and after architecture school, which I loved I, it was wonderful. I went to Tulane in New Orleans. I did some corporate stuff in the summers. I [00:04:00] did some sustainability stuff because I was really inspired by you know, sustainability. Like I think it's so many people, they go to architecture, like I wanna make the world a better place.

I was really drawn to that. And then I worked in high-end residential, which was my happiest time in architecture. And then I left that for tech and I basically took all of those client skills. And I'd say the three key words, like I think honesty and friendliness and really, I spent most of my time in the firm I was with doing high-end residential and beginning early stages, concepts, schematic. So really listening to clients and really learning about people. And then I take all those client management skills with me when I went into tech. And that's really where I've been able to double down on those experiences. I don't know how to code, but I can sit and talk with a lot of people about their things. Yeah.

Life on the Tech Side
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Silvia: And what are you up to these days? Professionally and in your free time too?

Helen: Yeah. So professionally, I work as a senior customer success manager at Monograph, so I absolutely love it. [00:05:00] I it's a small startup, so a lot of what we do is pretty heavy onboarding. And that's me basically talking to architects all day every day, talking them through how to learn the software and that I hear a lot of like common threads that people experience in the field, ways that we can solve those problems.

And then I'd say one of the more challenging parts of the job, but also rewarding is to take their feedback and be able to relay that to our team, to try and help build better solutions for them, that are better solutions to architects everywhere. Of the smaller variety, which in a previous role I was in too, was the same.

We worked for like a. Gifting startup. And it was basically like we would send these really beautiful gifts from like small makers across the world with Airbnb. That was our main client. And I um, you know, we'd get feedback sometimes of I didn't really want another thing I wanted to donate.

And that eventually became something as an option that Airbnb started to offer. Instead of sending like a tangible gift was like a donation thing. So I think that's a really. It's a fun part of the job is making [00:06:00] things better, listening to people.

Cabin in the Woods
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Helen: Um, What am I up to in my free time?

I live in a cabin in the woods. So I hike, I ski, I run, I trail run. I meet lots of wonderful people. I have great neighbors in a small little town, which is a really nice thing to I don't know if I, it feels like coming home for me to be back in a small town, even though I love the hustle and bustle of a city. That's my free time and I have time to read and, play and do all those good things that sometimes as architects. You You forget about that.

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. And when you were carving out the next steps in your career from one company to the next, what kind of thoughts were going through your head? How did you make the next decision or plan where you wanted to go to next? And also maybe any advice you could give to someone who's thinking about other careers?

Blood, Sweat & Tears
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Helen: Yeah. So first I'll say that I seem very happy and bubbly now but when I was going through it, it was a dark time. It was a really dark time.[00:07:00] It was one of these things where you have spent 10 plus years and so many nights, and literally blood, sweat and tears like pursuing this path and then you get there and you're like, I'm miserable.

And I actually don't want any of this and I'm miserable and probably coincided with other things going on. But I guess first thing is it can be a really challenging time because at the end of the day, I think it's a lot. I compare it to leaving an abusive former relationship cause it's like I have, I've put all this energy and effort into something and it wasn't good for me.

And it brought out a lot qualities in myself that I don't like. And like one of those being like, I'm not a, I can be really competitive, but that's not the side of me that I really wanna bring out the most of. I'd rather be collaborative and working with people. It was really hard.

To I think, admit that I was ready to make that change or that I needed to. And so it was hard. So what did I do? I started out by writing [00:08:00] down every single job I'd had since I was 16 and I was 29, I think at the time that I left architecture. And I wrote down everything that I liked and didn't like about each of those jobs and like from low level to I hated the paperwork to high level, to I worked as a summer camp counselor. Like I hated cleaning boogery noses, like everything.

And then starting to pull, pull some things from that of what do I like? And then from there, what am I good at? And I think that's also a really challenging piece, depending on where you are. If you're thinking about leaving architecture is. It's one thing to know what you don't like. It's another thing to know what you're good at. And to even say, I'm good at this is a really challenging thing, I think when you're in a certain head space.

And that was kind of where I started and I realized one thing that I really like is having every day look different. It was a big reason. I left architecture. I felt like I knew what every day for the next 20 years, more or less would look like, and I wanted something different. So all that being said, I think I did a lot of, I called the value work, [00:09:00] first of what do I like? What I not like? What am I good at? And then I wrote down a list of 15 companies that I admired what they did, classic one, Patagonia. I also love the outdoors and just saw what are they hiring for? And is my skill set transferable? And I realized that and more often than not actually. I had a lot of what they were looking for in kind of these more soft skills ways. And I knew I didn't wanna go back to school because I didn't wanna commit multiple years as studying like UX or something like that when I had just done the same thing and didn't like where that had taken me.

I think my advice for everyone is to not forget what you're good at and to feel loud and proud about knowing what you are good at and to take that somewhere else. And then also be open to the fact that, you can do a lot of the things that more traditional businesses are looking for.

Just pull up those job descriptions, start looking at 'em and seeing if. What you've been doing in a firm can make sense, cuz most of the time it can. It's just about changing some vocabulary.[00:10:00]

Silvia: Yeah, I loved how objectively you have to look at yourself to really see your strengths and where you wanna spend your time and energy. And I can very much relate to you on how your profession can feel like an abusive relationship sometimes. And you might not know until you get out of it to see oh, I really, that wasn't good for me. Like I'm a different person. Before and now.

Helen: Yeah. And I think to just be happy, I think there's such a cult of suffering that could happen in architecture and it doesn't have to be that way and that doesn't have to be your life yeah.

Silvia: Yeah. I don't really know how it started. Cuz even when I was in school, I felt like I had to be in studio all the time, working on my projects. No one told me I had to do that, but it's just the feeling you get. Sometimes in, at work, your managers will tell you they need something that night and that is unfortunate. And that's probably why people leave the profession eventually.

Helen: Yeah, totally. No, I think it's and there's always that thing too. It's like [00:11:00] work will always be work, but you don't have to hate every minute of every day. I think I also kind of, I don't know if my, I would say my work was put like that just wasn't fulfilling. And I didn't see like a trajectory for myself, but there is some, I think some real beauty and freedom too in being like, I am more than my work and separating those two things, which I think in architecture, you're trained to do the opposite. Yeah.

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. Going back to the competitiveness and like the prestige and chasing credentials or positions at work. You think, you know the trajectory that you're supposed to follow, but it doesn't bring you more happiness. It doesn't always bring you more compensation. So separating yourself from all of those things that you thought needed to define you.

Helen: Yeah, exactly. And I think it's also scary, cuz it's like your identity is if you're not an architect, there's a moment. I think for certain people it's then what am I? And that's a journey that can be, I think really useful for anyone of like constantly asking that question, but especially for architecture, it's like, yeah, if we break [00:12:00] up with architecture then we have to rediscover who we are as a single person and what we love to do, is that so yeah.

Silvia: I think it's nice to define yourself in the three words you started with honest, friendly and thinker, because you can see those track throughout your different positions in your career.

Don't Do What I Did
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Silvia: So next question. Along the way, where did you go to, to look for resources or advice or find people to talk to? Did you cold outreach people, LinkedIn message people you might have a connection with or not, like where did you find things to help you along in your searches?

Helen: So I'll say I did everything wrong and I did everything the hard way which is part of the reason why I now like to work with folks with Out of Architecture, because I don't want people to be doing what I did.

I don't want anyone to be joining a startup and not getting equity. I did that. I did lots of dumb things and I didn't know, like I had no idea what I was doing. And so what did I do? I literally just sent out [00:13:00] cold emails. There were a couple people that I talked to, but I didn't really know anyone.

And I got lucky and landed my first thing that took me out of out of architecture, but it was very low pay. And it was a tough time and again, no equity. And now we spend so much time, coaching people, but also in the most recent job search. And it's really, it's it's all who, you know, and how you're networking.

And then how you're positioning yourself. So finding those keywords, on LinkedIn and things like that, it sounds really dumb, but there is really an art to it. And that's what I tell people now is I'm like don't send out cold resume emails into the army of bots and things like that. It's just not gonna work. Like you need to find people who can make a case for you. And, or find people who also believe in you and will cheer you on because everyone needs that. No matter the job search, but as particularly if you're managing a pivot and another thing I'll say too is I've had lots of friends and family who are in actual business, whether it's startups or like [00:14:00] energy, oil, and gas, things like that. And talking to them can be really helpful because they'll expose like whole new ways of thinking.

Friends in Your Corner
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Helen: One of my favorite examples is a firm. I with I, We didn't have a 401k program. It wasn't even a match just like I was like, we should just have a 401k that we can individually contribute to. So I did the research on that. And then with couple other people at the firm. And we were able to get, 401k it's like a hundred bucks for an employer they're small enough. It's really not a big deal, but it's a huge thing for your employees. And I would just had that on there and my friend looked at my resume and she was like, you're a culture changer.

That's what you do. You have to put that on there, that you change company culture. And I was like, that seems highfalutin and overinflated, but it's just interesting that's how different people can think about what you're doing. And in a way you need, I think, a big, you need people outside of architecture, especially if you're pivoting to tell you those things, because we are not taught to sell ourselves.

You go to business [00:15:00] school, you really learn how to sell your skill set. And I don't want to maybe a word inflated isn't right. But it's Yeah. I guess you're right. I did change the culture there. Okay. I'll put on my resume, but that matters then to people who are just looking at your resume with a different perspective than architecture.

So those are my kind of pieces of advice is try to find someone, and then have people who are not architects, look at your resume and just surround yourself with people that are gonna cheer you on. Cuz you're gonna need it. It's not easy.

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. I have two very good friends from architecture school and I guess it's very important to have people who can understand where you've been. So like when you're having a bad day, they're like, oh yeah, I've been there. I know what you're going through. Hang in there. And then on good days where it's like, oh, I'm gonna try out for a new job. And they're like, hell yeah, you got this. So yeah, definitely have that group that you can really be honest with and a little vulnerable, but also. Support you a hundred percent of the way. Yeah, that's great.

Helen: Yeah. [00:16:00] I was gonna say, call you on your ship, but that too. We're about to edit that out.

Silvia: I dunno which way we're going with this. I'm pretty sure we can curse on this podcast.

Transferrable Skills
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Silvia: Are there skills that you've borrowed from one, like you've learned on one job and then you found really useful in another or skills you've developed along the way, like in your toolbox of things, you're really good at that you found to be very helpful.

Helen: Problem solving problem, solving, problem solving. I think for anyone that's in architecture, that's a huge thing. Why we're there. It's a huge thing in anything you do, I would say in life, but it's a skill that companies are looking for. It's hard to find, I think some of the challenge too, is to always try to be solution oriented.

And I think that can be difficult. If you're in a difficult situation at work. But problem solving is huge. And then I would also say. Uh, Something, in business terms they would use it like works cross functionally. And that means you can work with a bunch of different people. Work across teams [00:17:00] recognize like this department, that department, you might have competing priorities, but you both need to get on the same page to a certain level.

And I think that cross-functional experience is huge. I think you learn that from having good relationships or. Good working relationships. That doesn't mean that they're always rosy with like your contractors with your engineers. Like you're working with people who might have different projects that are their priority.

Yours is this one and that kind of empathy and understanding of how it's like to work with other people. And finding that middle ground that you can, both, that everyone can be on the same page. And I think that's something, depending on the firm that you might be with, if you are looking to pivot it's how much are you working with other stakeholders?

And that can be huge because basically you're doing the same thing, whether you're at a startup, whether you're at big corporate thing. It's all about stakeholder management setting the right expectations and being able to say, Hey, I know that this person needs this done at this date and this person needs this one done at this date. So where can we meet in the middle? I think that's, [00:18:00] those are two big ones. And then another one too, I'd say is just like good communication, again and again.

Silvia: I was gonna say, I've used the answer communication in so many interviews, like for architecture, like what do you do when your consultants don't respond or your client is unhappy or there's a delay I'm like you communicate before and after and make sure everything can keep moving. But everything boils down to communication in the end and that doesn't change.

Helen: Yeah. And that, I also think it's amazing cuz it's there's some great quote about the beauty and the evil and all relationships communication or something like that. But it's anything in, in life, whether it's your job or your personal life, it's just communication. Like it's huge. So yeah, , it's a good one to always work on and also stay on top of ways you can communicate cuz architects also will communicate, usually visually. So it's you can give me like an example of this is like I, when I was working for a big corporate thing via acquisition, I [00:19:00] used Gantt charts to project manage projects.

Gantt Charts FTW
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Helen: No one there had seen a Gantt chart before. So that's like a very tangible example of bringing something over. But it's to me, that's a communication method of who's tracking on and where, and it's a visual method versus an email with like X, Y, and Z. This group's in charge of this, they're on track.

So I think being open to whether that's using like Slack, Teams, like there's so many different ways to communicate and trying to keep those pathways clear, but also be okay, like bringing a new way of communicating to, to the forefront, if it works best for you, it might work for someone else too.

Silvia: I love that you use Gant chart in like in another application. And actually in my last interview, Jake says, I think he put together like an InDesign presentation that was more visual than the regular PowerPoint deck. I feel like as architects, we're not really told exactly what we need to do. We just develop a lot of different skills to solve very vague problems. So we should keep applying these [00:20:00] ways of communicating visually and like through charts and diagrams, because everything we work in, is a aid to communication in some way. So I love that you developed your own.

Helen: Yeah. It's and even now, too, like I often, if you get tasked with like new process or workflow things, which a lot of times in young startups, you do, I can't do anything without starting out with a pen and paper and like drawing it out like this, and then this arrow comes to this and then it's you're just, you're doing a plan, right? Like you're doing a plan and a diagram and all the same stuff. It's just, slightly different, but yeah.

Continuing to Learn
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Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, what are you looking forward to in the future?

Helen: Let's see, learning more. I think I'm in a really nice place in my life where I feel like I have some balance, which feels cool. so I'm trying to like, explore what that looks like, so things like, oh, I have free time now and Where, how am I gonna use it best?

[00:21:00] And it's a fun question that I feel very blessed to be in a position to ask. And then. I think work wise, just continuing to learn. I think that's great. And, network and all those good things. But yeah, I'd say I'm in a very I'm in an interesting, it feels like semi hibernation phase where everything feels fine. Like nothing's like rapidly on fire, which I think a lot of people can relate to after the last two years is just kind of, uh, and things aren't great out there. Let's not. Let's not say everything's rosy right now, but I think it's just been a recentering and yeah, trying to be open to what might come my way, but it's nice.

Silvia: Yeah. I love that. Like you have the freedom and space to do whatever you want.

Helen: It's wild

School was a Gift
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Silvia: and then what does architecture mean to you now at this point in your career, or in other words, how would you define being an architect? You can come at that question from any which way.

Helen: Let's see. [00:22:00] What it means to me now is Ooh, I can still have a very rosy view of school. I think it was. So I'll look at it this way. It was a really indulgent time, right? Like it's three and a half years where what you did was focus on making beautiful things and spaces and communicating your ideas and your thoughts and doing research and like putting that all together into A beautiful thing.

You're like making your own little worlds in your head. And I will always look at school as a gift, even though it was hard because I loved like doing the drawings. I loved the thinking behind it. I loved learning about the places we were gonna be building, for the semester quote building.

And what I think that armed me with was an ability to do some research and also bring something that's in your head, communicate it well onto paper, and then take it forward into something that is actually in the built environment and managing that process and people along the way is that's [00:23:00] pretty cool. , and it's something that you can do. It's so many ways like, you know, software's kind of the same path of like concept to, research concept, refine. Maybe doing some more research and then, but you're still bringing something to fruition based on, I'd say a very like methodical way of getting there.

That's what that means to me. I'd also say that it being an architect to me means that you have worked really hard. And I think that's important if you are looking to pivot that, that if people know architects, they know how hard it is, and they know it's a big deal to leave it behind, but they know when they're hiring you, that you will work hard.

And I think that's something too, like work ethic is really important. And can lead to all kinds of bad things as well. So I don't wanna put that too high on the pedestal, but to me that was, I think that's what it brings to me forward is like that I like the hard work that I did. I know I can be passionate about the work that I'm doing and that's important.

Learning boundaries is good, but then I think being an [00:24:00] architect to me is really like, how do I take something from my head, communicate it out, and then make it happen.

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. That's also actually kind of you said the reasons that I love architecture too, to one day see the product of what was once only an idea in your head. That gets me every time. Like I love that part.

Helen: Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. It's and I think it's a beautiful field. I think that's the other thing too, is I talked about the word, like cross functional, like you have to know so many little things, like you're a generalist about so many things in architecture and you're curious, and then like you bring that wherever you go, it doesn't just have to be professional. So yeah.

Silvia: Thank you very much, Helen. I loved everything you had to say. And it makes me smile, and inspires me again about the joy of being an architect, which is so easy to lose.

Helen: It's so easy to lose. It's almost, I think it's. It's easier to have fond memories of it, when you're not in it every day, depending on where you're working and how you're working and all those things. But [00:25:00] yeah, I still think it's a beautiful field and I'm thankful for every moment and experience that I had in it. And also what it brings to my life and looking forward.

Outro
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Erin: Hey everyone. It's Erin from Out of Architecture. If you find these stories inspiring and are looking for guidance, clarity, or just need someone to talk to about where you are in your career, please know that we offer free 30 minute consultations to talk about what may be next for you. If you're interested, head to out of architecture.com/scheduling to book some time with us.

Jake: Hey everyone. It's Jake from Out of Architecture. We love hearing your stories, but we know there's more out there that we've still yet to experience. If you or someone you know would be a good fit for the podcast and has a story about taking their architecture skills beyond the bounds of traditional practice, we'd love to hear it. Send us an email at tangents@outofarchitecture.com.

Silvia: Thanks for listening to our podcast, new episodes every two weeks. See you then