Creating Space for Everybody with Wandile Mythiyane
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Wandile: [00:00:00] So the anti-racist hotdog is me doing the same thing I've been doing with Ubuntu. But now we're building non-physical homes. We're building spaces and places of belonging for folks within the workplace, for folks within schools, and for folks within the community.

Intro
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Silvia: Welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture.

Out of Architecture is a career consulting firm helping designers apply their incredible talents in untraditional ways. We're highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we've met along the way. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves

From the wide variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.

Our guest today is Wandile Mthiyane, founder and CEO of Anti-racist Hotdog and CEO of Ubuntu design group. Here Wandile share his [00:01:00] experiences creating a place of dignity for everybody in both physical and non-physical ways.

3 words: Resilient, Faith, Optimistic
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Silvia: Thank you, for being here today. I'm really glad to have you for this conversation.

And we, how would you describe yourself in three words?

Wandile: Oh, first of all, thank you for having me. describing myself in three words. I'll say, uh, resilient. Uh, faith and optimistic.

Silvia: I like those words. I hear optimistic a lot and I think it has to do with part of the why some of us end up as architects I'm very curious to hear how those words come out in the rest of the interview.

what is your background in architecture and where did that lead you two?

Wandile: Um, yeah, no, I started my undergrad and masters in architecture at Andrews University in Michigan, with the sole purpose of using architecture as a vehicle to go back to South Africa to design and build dignified housing for folks leaving in slums and chanty towns and informal settlements, which are some [00:02:00] of the places that I grew up.

So that was the sole reason why I studied architecture. And whilst at architecture school, I quickly found out that, building for low income communities wasn't quite seen as architecture.

Um, so I started pushing back on that and started Ubuntu Design Group when I was doing my undergrad fourth year and we started re-looking at what does dignified affordable housing look like. Uh, we drew a lot from Alejandro Ana's half house project. We drew a lot from the amazing work that Mass design group is doing in Rwanda. and obviously drew from the context, we realized that like a lot of housing, affordable housing that was done, we were missing the point.

a lot of times when people build affordable housing, they'll do these 40 square meter homes. They'll located them far away from economy opportunities there'll be barely any services. Roads or parks around them, which is ironic [00:03:00] because the only reason why folks, uh, live in the slum Chinatown is because they're trying to get closer to work. if you lock them in a 40 square meter home, that's impossible to add onto, uh, then you are locking them into that socioeconomic group. And more importantly, you know, folks didn't have jobs. So South Africa is about unemployment rate. So building someone, the house doesn't solve the problem.

Home as an economic space
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Wandile: So what we wanted to do is I couldn't house be more than just a house, could it also be economic space?

So we designed something called the Ubuntu home it's a home with a commercial space attached to it, and the family, uh, can use that commercial space to either run a business based on their skillset or not. Everyone is entrepreneurial or they could rent it out as an, and. Airbnb

uh, built our pilot project in 2017. Uh, the family was living with disability. And, um, had lost their home, mud, brick home, a light rainstorm in Durban, and they were living in a board room. now they have a handicap accessible home. They're [00:04:00] running a daycare out of their home. Through their commercial space, they've tripled their income and 18 mothers cannot go to work cuz they send their kids to school.

So that's why I studied architecture. That's part of the work that I still do within architecture. Um, that's my story.

Going Back To Your Roots to Drive You
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Silvia: That's amazing. And I loved how you described it as a vehicle. it's not just something that exists for beauty or aesthetics and it, it really serves a purpose. How did you come about creating this, and take this idea and, reach people with it?

Wandile: Yeah. Um, I think it goes back to the roots, right? So like a lot of kids when I was in architecture school were like obviously fascinated by skyscrapers or star architects, et cetera. So we all had different motivations. For me, I didn't care about all the fancy stuff. I just wanted dignified housing, that's why I was there.

So that's what I was there to figure out, and that's kind of what I was doing, because it was deeply personal. . you know, when I was growing up, I realized that at the Center and core, a lot [00:05:00] of, a lot of issues within low income communities was the lack of dignified housing.

Without a dignified house, you don't have a physical address. Without a physical address, you can't apply for a job. Without a job, you don't have money. Without money, you can't buy building materials and build a home, and the cycle of poverty goes on. Without a dignified house, you don't have room for kids to come back and do homework. You live in a one room shack, so that affects education. Without a dignified house, you have health issues due to the mold that comes from the moist mud brick wall, uh, leading to, you know, my sister having asthma, et cetera. So I saw, you know, in very real ways, sort of the impact of lack of dignified housing.

So that's really what inspired, kind of like my whole life's trajectory to going to architecture school and studying it. And fighting my professors and telling them this, what about the other 90% of the world that doesn't afford architects?[00:06:00] you know, part of that resilience and having faith and believing that have everyone has a God given intrinsic value. And as a result, everyone deserves to have a dignified home. Uh, which is interesting to be in America particularly in Michigan, where there was this notion that, You know, poor people were lazy. Um, and they ought to pull themselves out by their bootstraps, which is ironic because they probably don't have boots, this idea that they're lazy is like, you know, fundamentally problematic because a lot of the houses we live in, were built by blue collar, uh, folks from low income communities. The only difference between us and them, It's not that they lack creativity or they're lazy, it's actually that they just lack the level of privilege that we have and access to resources to do the same for themselves.

Carrying That Passion Forward
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Wandile: So carrying that in my heart across architecture school, sort of gave both to Ubuntu design group. And so I started designing in college, started [00:07:00] submitting, uh, for South by Southwest and One Young World. I was invited to One Young World Social Venture Business Challenge. I guess I got to compete with other kids with different startups.

Uh, a lot of tech startups, you know, from Harvard and Princeton, stuff like that. But somehow I won with the very brick and mortar sort of startups. I gave me a little bit of confidence and I got mentors. Who, you know, had gone to Harvard Business School. Were working in Wall Street, Toronto, Cambridge, London, a businessman who helped me shape my model.

we competed the South by Southwest. We finished top six finalists for the eco place by design. Um, you know, like the more you do these things, the more you put yourself out there. The more you see how the world responds, the more you realize like, maybe, maybe I'm not crazy, you know, maybe we can actually change the world maybe we can have an impact. And sort of taking a, a year break from school between my undergrad and master's to go build the first home. So I didn't wait to finish school [00:08:00] to do it. I was like, I'm going to do it yeah, change my life.

Silvia: Yeah, I love that and I love how there's this, empowerment that comes with it, not only with having a home, but also creating the home that works for you and having a choice and decision in what that can be. When you were creating all of this, what kind of advice was most helpful to you along the way or that really stuck with you throughout?

Advice During The Process
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Wandile: Ah, great question. One of my friends told me this, he said, you serve an audience of one. You know, in my case, I come from a religious background, so that's one is God, you know? And myself in a way, because there's a lot of voices out there , right? Like everyone and their grandmother thinks they know what you should or shouldn't be doing.

From professors to architects, to even the, you know, investors you're pitching to, et cetera. You can easily just like lose it, [00:09:00] like go crazy. But, um, the, I guess the premise here is like, follow your true north. And as, uh, you know, as I keep referencing, like a lot of my true north is rooted in my own personal experience and, you know, some way to do it with a fat check could gimme other words that I could learn from, but ultimately they don't know the conditions that I'm solving for and they can never know them, right? So have faith in yourself, in that process.

But again, I don't wanna glorify the process too because , it's h right? Basically, you are voluntarily choosing to be poor for a long time because you're solving. something that you actually care about, which I'm the first one to acknowledge that. I don't think I've figured it out.

Like obviously I'm doing like stuff with the anti-racist hot dog now as well, and I'm still trying to figure out how to scale that model, even though it's successful. [00:10:00] It's like, how do you scale a $30,000 home?

Because, you know, we did stuff, we got, I mean, we got all the clout right? South by Southwest World, a resolution project. Obama . I'm an Obama leader now, and I'm, yeah. I'm even like, teaching the next cohort of Obama leaders coming in. Like we did a lot, but we still aren't able to scale. And it took me a while to figure this out away.

Someone sat me down and was like, , you are able to scale, or it's difficult to scale this model, not because it's not noble or important or solve a problem. It's just like no one cares about housing like that. It's like, look at the world, like the biggest challenge in the world is lack of dignified in America, in the slums in India, everywhere else.

But think about it this way, if you built a well. Everyone wants to build a well, right? It was like, oh, I built this well [00:11:00] and a community of 30,000 can now have water and they can drink water, which improves education. And people stretch the potential impact of just people having drank water

that's sexier, right? Those metrics are sexy. Then coming, it's like, Hey, I built a family a house. Right. So understanding the nuances and those challenges, but staying true to who you are, has been helpful.

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's hard too because you have to rely on what you know, but we are, you know, as you're going to school, there's all these things like that. You're seeking more knowledge. You assume that the people you're surrounded with. Can guide you

Wandile: Yes or yes,

Silvia: but then you, there's, is there a point where you find out you do have to put up some barriers or shut that out a little and like come back to yourself feel like everyone has been led us straight at one point in time by what they thought and then they have to kind of reflect and like go back to like what really is meaningful to them.

Finding different mentors
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Wandile: [00:12:00] Yes, very true because the thing is like you can go crazy with the voices, at first, just because of the cultural context I come from is very communal. that's why it's called Ubuntu design, encrypt this idea, I am because we are right. but I realize there's a limitations to even that concept because by taking everyone's voice and perspective into account, You can literally go crazy.

yeah, so that was a really tough one because I respected my elders, my professors, and all of these things. and you know, after sometimes just challenging, I had to chat on my own. Uh, so yeah, it's like finding that balance. I had this mentor who taught me how to question everything, right?

Like, to start with why, just like very influential person to me in college. who, who was the dean of men at the dorm. still really close. And I, you know, I was talking to him. and then I realized like, oh, I was great at coming up with the narrative. I was great at getting the why, but I was terrible on like the finance and like [00:13:00] the business side and like trying to figure out the other things that I needed to scale something and get things going within business.

And I asked him, he was like, bro, like why? Why don't you like teach me about the other stuff? Why is that? And it's like, you can't get everything from one mentor changed my life. I was like, ah. That is important. So identifying what you can learn from folks, but also where their limitations are. People aren't Gods, right?

They won't be able to pour out all the knowledge to you. So now I have a mentor that I could learn architecture from. One I could learn, about, business from one I could learn about self-care, mental health, religion, et cetera. Um, so that was very important, for me to.

Silvia: and how did you connect with your mentors or identify who would be helpful or like, that you wanted to have a relationship with?

I find that sometimes, I've kind of been in that situation where I was like, oh, you're my mentor. Like, I wanna know all of the things, you know, but it's really [00:14:00] hard to pass that on to someone. I think expectations of mentors versus what you really get out of them is, not aligned, but I think it's because the expectations I have were not realistic either.

Wandile: Yeah. But that's, that's where we all started. Yeah. Like they can't give you everything, you know what I mean? The same way I have limitations. They have limitations. They're things they're really good at and they're things that they suck at. So knowing how to filter takes time, but it's very important

how did I build my network, of mentors?

I've never been asked this question, so it's good making me think. It was all organic, and I don't want this to sound cliche. The more you step out. Is the more you expose yourself to an array of potential mentors. So the key mentors I won, then through that competition, the business competition, and six years later we're still going strong.

Right? And then the other mentors [00:15:00] was again, me putting myself out, either competing in that prison competition, you know, religious mentors, you know, from different churches or places I went to, uh, mental health, you know, folks that I met at a conference who happened to be a life coach or. , uh, into, um, you know, yoga and this, and had great conversation and alliance, who now we have a weekly call to talk about all the things we're going through.

So it's all organic, but it requires effort. It requires you stepping out of your comfort zone, meeting folks, competing in things. Telling people about your vision, what you're doing, and you end up building these general relationships that end up becoming, uh, your mentors. And in some ways, I am my mentor's mentor as well, because they're also inspired by what I'm doing, right? So it's a two-way relationship.

I have found that it's a harder find for my female friends. They've all sort of talked [00:16:00] about the struggle to find a good mentor. I obviously don't fully understand all the nuances that go with that, but, um, yeah. So I just wanted to, to mention that disclaimer that, you know, obviously I have some privilege in that context.

Silvia: thank you for that. I can imagine why that, like, if you don't have mentors that share a similar path to you might be hard to seek them out. Understand that you're doing many different things now too with uh, anti-racist hotdog. Can you share a little more about that?

From Houses to Hot Dogs
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Wandile: Yeah, yeah. I think Architizer wrote a really good article on it. It said From Houses to Hotdogs, , that was the title of the article.

So the anti-racist hotdog is me doing the same thing I've been doing with Ubuntu. But now we're building non-physical homes. We're building spaces and places of belonging for folks within the workplace, for folks within schools, and for folks [00:17:00] within the community.

this came about after I had just gone to a restaurant in Durban or on a public promenade, uh, South Africa, uh, where I'm. . And as soon as I walk in, a white manager said to me, uh oh, you can't eat here. And I was like, oh, why can't I eat here? And he said, well, sorry, uh, are you a member? Which he already assumed that I'm not a member based on how i look

I was like, no, I'm not a member. And then he said, Yeah, sorry, members only. I was like, oh, I didn't know you have to be a member to eat here. Can I have a day passes? Like, nah, you can't have a day pass. There's no a day passes. Which upon further investigation, there was day passes. There just wasn't a day pass for someone that looked like me.

And this is South Africa too. So very clear. Very African black country. But obviously with the history and legacy of apartheid, now, I was starting to get visibly angry. I was like, well, let me join the membership then. What do I need to do? I take up my wallet. I'm like, what do I need to do? It's like, oh, to be a member, you have to, you know, call this [00:18:00] person, email this person.

Then a committee sits done, and I was like, oh, it's like that. I was like, y'all mess with the wrong one. I left, spent two days reading everything they've ever written in their constitution, et cetera. Obviously they're all whiteboard. And then I found out that there's two types of membership. There's like a sports membership, and then there's a.

It is a social membership where I can eat to be a social member. I need to submit my photo, fill in my address. Um, and then from there I need to have two families to cosign for me, two different families to cosign for me. Pay two to 3000 rams. Um, and then a committee. All white ho genius committee will sit down based off their opinion.

Decide whether or not I can. The cut to be a member. Now what's funny is that like all the lists of things that I need to submit actually don't matter because a committee at the end of the [00:19:00] day has to sit down and the only requirement of their constitution is like, based off their opinion, will decide whether or not I can make the cut, which obviously led to every black person being on the waiting list and every white person being a member of this club.

Right? So as a response, I thought to myself, I was like, well, we could protest. We could come throw stones. . Um, but then I realized that like, you know, obvious throwing stones, what's expected of me protesting, takes a, takes away from the victim. Like, you lose a day of work, you may even lose your life, like in the house case.

So I was like, how would I respond as an architect in this? So I designed a little hotdog stand and, and this restaurant is under, sort of like a, a promenade so like, think of a prominent way people are skating and hanging out overlooking the ocean. And then underneath is the restaurant where when you walk out of restaurant you walk into the beach straight.

So I put my [00:20:00] hot dog stand on top of the prominent on top of where the racist restaurant is. I invited my friends who, are house music DJs who did the soundtrack for Black Panther One. so it was hotdogs house music. And conversations on race. And they started bringing in different people from like different age groups, different races, uh, to come and have a conversation and inclusion and what does a postal South Africa but postal city look like?

Um, and this just a conversation with very Transformational, even President Obama tweeted about it. And from there we took that same approach at methodology and started using it in ha in helping shape inclusive workplaces for architecture firms and for different companies. And that's really what the Anti Hard dog is.

It's, it's acknowledging that. Sort of injustice has happened within redlining in within the physical space and a apartheid architecture, et cetera. But more so [00:21:00] also within the nonphysical spaces that we occupy, uh, such as workplaces and schools, and how do we start designing an inclusive culture?

And so we come up with innovative ways to tackle the conversation of race. We've got something called the anti-racist hot conversation cards that we just launched really excited about, which takes away the responsibility from you on me starting the conversation or the burden. Now it's on the cards and creates a guided fund conversation. We, we throw anti-racist hot dog parties at companies and schools.

Um, our premise is that if racism is such a burden and a thought within our society, then anti-racism must be fun and exciting. And then we have cooking classes where you learn about a new African culture through their cuisines while in terms of a workplace inclusion instead of a boring lecture. but yeah, that's what the entire hot dog is about.

Anti-Racism In Offices
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Silvia: I love how you use the hotdog as a vehicle for, [00:22:00] anti-racist, and like getting them into the office and into the conversation and places, and also for fun. that's amazing. how has that worked with the offices? My understanding is that I feel like a lot of offices either think they're already doing great in terms of diversity, , and don't have a problem. Or sometimes the diversity events that happen are done, in like non-billable hours by their staff that are having to educate the rest of the company about diversity.

Wandile: Yeah, that's a good question. So obviously I can't speak for the offices themselves because I'm not running one that's needs these experiences per se. I wanna give a, a shout out to Howard. Howard is doing amazing work. I think they're design designing the, the new campus, the new Metaverse campus for Facebook and San Francisco, which is interesting because it's a real campus[00:23:00]

besides that, they've brought us in twice and not because something happened. And that's important, you know, you know, and, you know, I think their demographics are more on the white side but they're intentional about their work and, and trying to, to change those things. I've been able to find very few outliers. It's been hard to obviously penetrate through the architecture market per se, because I think a lot of architecture firms are seeing this work as a nice to have versus a must. Or in need, but I always feel bad when I have, when I have a conversation with a AL client and they sort of like dust their feet on us like that because I know it's only a matter of months or years before something happens, , and then it's like, Hey, You wanna come over ? It's like the, the you up text version of d e i. I don't know. It's like [00:24:00] we need more proactive leaders within architecture. Um, I think a big portion of us still think building inclusive culture. Is a nice to have rather than a must have. , but you know, the, the cracks are starting to show, you know, I was at a thing in New York where they were forming the union for architecture workers, right?

So we're standing up for ourselves now, so that's great. so hopefully these things will nudge folks in the right direction because I, as we all know, working at an architecture firm, there's so much toxic work place culture from being overworked and underpaid. so the over clarification of all matters and mental health being an issue and just like lack of representation, like we have so many problems.

as we continue doing our work, we can inspire more firms to be the change that they want to see and realize how this actually does trickle down to their bottom line and, and the work that they do.

Silvia: Yeah, for [00:25:00] some reason, like, I feel like it's very obvious that happy workers would equal better projects or like having decency in the way that you schedule things or like that you deal with workloads or your employees many, many things.

It never seems to change, but I like that the way you put it, that it's not a nice to have, like it's, it's necessary. you also mentioned how you, the anti-racist hotdog is creating a home for conversation. And then Ubuntu was making a home for people that really needed it a structure for their life, like to have the livelihood that, would improve their lives.

I feel like these ideas, you've used the word home to describe the way that these ideas come to life, and I know you mentioned earlier about the importance of home. Can you elaborate a little more about what home means for you?

Home
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Wandile: Ooh, that's a hard question. . It's a hard question. I don't know what home means for me yet that I'm so [00:26:00] fascinated by the concept of.

anti-racist hotdog builds home. Both and anti-racist hotdog build home for people. they create dignity for folks and they create a sense of belonging for folks. The difference between the anti-racial hot dog and the difference between a buntu is that one is a physical home that does that, and the other one is a non-physical.

It does that, creating more of like a culture, a home, home as a culture versus home as a building. I think for me the constant has home, home as justice and belonging because when you look at the work that I'm doing, I'm trying to figure out what a home is by providing these families a home that I never had.

So whether it's a physical home or a nonphysical home, I'm trying to create a sense of belonging for folks. Or even when I'm having a conversation with someone, I want [00:27:00] them to feel at home as they co, as they have that conversation with me. so that's what a home is to me, it's like a place where people feel safe.

Uh, they feel a sense of justice, uh, and they feel a sense of belonging. And that's a place that I'm in the quest of, in my life for myself. But also, evidently through my work.

Silvia: How does it feel to have created. This very truthful, honest venture, like into the world. I don't know if this is what you imagine like a career trajectory for yourself or like a future but I'm sure you must take a lot of pride into what you have created.

Helps Me Sleep Well
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Wandile: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely, uh, helps me sleep well. You know what I mean? I can sleep with, I mean, I'm still anxious that I feel, I feel like I'm not doing enough and I could do more, and we could make more, and et cetera, et cetera. But, uh, when I have conversations with other people in my life and [00:28:00] talk about my work, or especially when I'm talking to new people, Like you who just got to know about my work and just seeing the glow and the excitement in their face and I'm like, huh, maybe. Maybe it's not too bad. I was talking to my friend Josh in Chicago, friend in collaborator, fellow architecture school graduate. Who's also sort of like an outlier now, and we're talking about like, you know, some of the insecurities we go through, et cetera, and you know, and it's like, bro, like you don't wake up every morning feeling like you're a masters of architecture graduate, right?

like a 95% of the time you forget that you even did that, right? You just like trying to survive other day to day. So I think there's certainly highs and. . and I just wanna be very clear for me, I, I'm very, uh, extrinsically motivated. so that's why I mentioned how those key milestones really helped propel me forward.

So whether it was winning that business venture [00:29:00] competition, Bangkok at one young world to, you know, south by Southwests to United Nations, to Obama Foundation. But the problem is like when you pivot, And still trying other things. You go back to zero and there isn't a whole lot of, uh, milestone posts as you rebuild.

So it becomes harder and you have to sort of dig deep in within yourself and really anchor yourself under why, uh, so I'm in that process right now. but yeah, so I sleep well at. And yes, I still feel inadequate. . I still feel like there's, I'm not doing enough, uh, or I'm not where I want to be. And every now and again, I look, I look up and see others and maybe compare myself by accident, and, you know, feel a little bad and then sort of get back to it.

So it's a, it's a process and I'm still trying to, I figure that part. .

Silvia: Yeah, for sure. [00:30:00] do you have any advice on people like that feel like they want to take something on, but you know, don't know what the next steps are, are a little scared of, you know, putting themselves out there?

Wandile: I think if you are that person and you're inspired by my story and my.

I just wanna be very clear. I also don't know what I'm doing, , but I've surrendered to the process and keep trying also, like no one knows what they're doing. and you'll never start if you're waiting to have all the information, you just gotta shoot your shot and get it out there and you will fail most of the time.

I'll, I'll guarantee that for you, . Uh, but you'll never learn if you don't fail and, and take that. . So that's, you know, that's been my journey and I'm tired of the failings, , but they're still there. You know what I mean? I'm still trying to figure out. So I think it's more about starting yourself to being a lifelong learner, and just trying to figure things out and [00:31:00] surround yourself with folks who believe in you.

Very important. folks who can check you. No, you know that like at the center at the core, these are people who are your fans and believe in you because any like negative influence is like drastically, will drastically set you back, especially coming from people that you respect. so yeah, I think that's important, at least for me.

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you mentioned before that you mentioned process in, I think it was in terms of like. People kind of glorify the process, but don't, because it's so hard along the way, , but that's also kind of like where the growth happens and like,

Wandile: yeah, the process is painful, , but I, I, I'm still in it.

Maybe if I'm like on the other side, we've built a million homes and I've got millions and millions of dollars and impact, et cetera, et cetera, then I can go to a tell, talk and tell you about how beautiful the [00:32:00] process is. I'm a TEDxFellow. , but I'm going to be the first one to say like, I don't necessarily like Ted Talks because they glorify, you know, the pro, it's so packaged, right.

It's never is like that. And what's hurts is that a lot of the people are doing that no better. They've gone through the high of the lows. Right. But Ted talk, but I get it. I get it. Ted Talk has a story arc. You have to like, Start with a problem, try to solve it, go through a difficult situation, conquer that, and then boom, success.

But what actually happens is start with a problem. You're not even clear about. You try to solve it. You think you got it, and then you fail. And then you kind of think, you figure it out and then you fail. And then that a million times before it's can even be out there and. I can prove this for you by, [00:33:00] go to all the TED talks that you like and then go and research the projects that those people are talking about and see where they're at.

90% of the time, they're no longer even in existence. You know because that's life.

I think this is a very important point to mention for me. I've never seen myself as an architect. I've always seen myself as a person who does architecture.

like when I was born, the word architects wasn't written in my forehead, right? . I was born as this complex human being with many talents and many gifts to the world. You know, the same way I do dancing or do standup or. I do architecture, it's not, I'm not an architect. Um, I try to remove myself from that identity because it can, it comes with a lot of baggage that can be harmful when I start defining myself in that way.

So yeah, architecture's one of the things I do, but I'm always looking [00:34:00] to explore other things and tolerance. Um, the how changes, sorry, the, yeah, the how changes, but the why stands stays the same. And my why. Building dignity at home, dignity being people because everyone has inherent. God-given intrinsic value and dignity.

So my purpose and my why is to build that dignity at home, whether it's a physical home or it's a nonphysical home through culture with anti Sodom or just a conversation. So that's kind of how I look at.

Silvia: Yeah, that's great. The doing of architecture, cuz there is a lot of baggage and I think like some kind of like eism or like should, like a lot of shoulds, like I should be this way if I'm an architect or I should work at these companies or be a certain kind of way.

but there's so much that we can actually do with our.[00:35:00]

Wandile: A hundred percent. And with that knowledge and with that way of thinking, et cetera, which is what I'm trying to explore. So whether it's be like, you know, fashion next or this or that, you know, I'm just always looking for unique opportunities to, to do that.

And I think the key is all about finding your own why and your own purpose. Because again, even when I. , I feel like I'm not doing enough for inadequate, et cetera. The thing that always roots me is sort of my own personal journey and how from that, all my creativity and adventures come from, and no one can take that away from me.

Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. and then what are you looking forward to in the future?

Wandile: That's a good question, . I'm looking forward to the growth of the anti-racist hotdog and tu with dub to us figure out a, a model. We had this like micro mortgage bank we built in 2020.[00:36:00] No, we built it from 2018 till 2020. We were launching in like January, 2010, and then like covid happened, everything kind of crashed.

And uh, we've had P T S D every time we tried to open those decks and those conversations with investors. So hopefully we can start figuring things out and going slowly, going back to some of that and, and seeing how we can create a model that works. because it's been interesting, I've been seeing.

Like kill it, but like very similar models. I was like, yeah, we were first . you know, definitely looking forward to seeing what we can do there or even something new. And then, uh, with the anti hot dog, uh, looking forward to just growing our work, uh, our brand, more people using the cards and the cooking classes and being brought into.

More different companies, both architecture and non architecture, and starting to shape the way people look at non-physical spaces. So those are my two, um, [00:37:00] main focuses right now and looking to scale that. One of the things we are looking at is to build a digital platform that's plugs into Slack and, discord and helps builds inclusion into the day-to-day running.

A company rather than an implicit bias. One implicit bias test or a, A talk. Now, when you open your slack on Monday, there's a different prompt question on inclusion that shapes how you do your work that particular week. And you can set up like a, you know, a 10 or 15 minute hotdog dates to have a conversation with another coworker across the world, uh, within that same office who found that question also interesting.

So, yeah, just building culture.

Silvia: Oh my gosh, I love that, uh, digital platform idea. Yeah, please, like, let me know when that's launched.

Wandile: I gotcha. Yeah, that's working on, we're really excited. Um, yeah, just, just going crazy, man, and, and, and trying, trying all these different [00:38:00] things and, and seeing where things go.

Outro
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Erin: Hey everyone. It's Erin from out of Architecture. If you find these stories inspiring and are looking for guidance, clarity, or just need someone to talk to about where you are in your career, please know that we offer 30 minute consultations to talk about what may be next for you. If you're interested, head to out of architecture.com/scheduling to book some time with us.

Jake: Hey everyone. It's Jake from Out of Architecture. We love hearing your stories, but we know there's more out there that we've still yet to experience. If you or someone you know would be a good fit for the podcast and has a story about taking their architecture skills beyond the bounds of traditional practice, we'd love to hear it.

Send us an email at tangents@outofarchitecture.com.

Silvia: Thanks for listening to our podcast, new episodes every two weeks. See you then